You might be a Christian Fundamentalist if...

Jaquie S 206 comments
You might be a Christian Fundamentalist if...

Do you know any Christian Fundamentalists? They're are a hoot aren't they? Perhaps you are one yourself but don't even realise it. If you suffer from any of the below listed 'qualifications', please seek professional help.

This is my first Rusty Lime article so please be gentle, and know that I admit to being guilty of at least one in the list below.

You might be a Christian Fundamentalist if:

  • You complain when Christians aren't allowed to practice religion in other countries, but you go berzerker when someone tries to set up a Mosque in your neighbourhood.
  • You consider a single prayer that was 'answered' during your life time as a high success rate.
  • You constantly challenge the work of respected scientists who established the age of the Earth as billions of years old through sound scientific practices, but have no problem believing the word of ancient tribesman who think it's only several generations old.
  • You believe followers of every other religion will spend an eternity in Hell, but still consider your religion the most tolerant and understanding.
  • You believe ancient old debunked myths like Witchcraft are still relevant today and will therefore avoid Harry Potter movies just to be safe.
  • You are insulted when scientists say we evolved from other life forms, but have no problem believing we were created from dirt.
  • You believe we were created from dirt.
  • You think it quite reasonable that a man could horde 2 of every animal on the planet, put them in a boat, and have enough food to keep them alive for 40 days.
  • You hastily deny the existence of other Gods, but become outraged when someone denies the existence of yours.
  • You are arrogant enough to think the Earth and its inhabitants are the centre of and only life in the entire universe, despite it being statistically impossible.
  • You dismiss the scientifically proven explanation of any event because you don't understand it, but are happy to just say "God did it" without proof.
  • You think AIDS is Gods punishment for homosexuality.
  • You think homosexuality is a reversible choice.
  • You deplore homosexuality, but will vigorously defend your own Pastor when he is 'outed'.
  • Even though science, physics, medicine and biology have explained it, someone 'speaking in tounges' is all the 'evidence' you need to prove Christianity.
  • You know less about the Bible than your athiest and agnostic friends.
  • You dismiss all explanations of events that can't be answered with 'God did it' as nonsense.
  • You think anyone with an open mind has been influenced by the Devil.
  • You share common points of view with the same types of people who thought the Earth was flat.

If you want to include some of your own please leave me a comment.

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Gilly

Saturday 12th January 2008 | 09:55 PM

What the hell. I will bite
You might be a Arogant self righteous patronising hypocrite if you wrote a self serving article like this if you did. You are
Listen Sweety if you are going to throw your intellect around like a big Girl Back it UP
Convert me to Evolution
Answer my few questions or slide off in to the Primordial soup for me

1. Where did the space for the universe come from?


2. Where did matter come from?


3. Where did the laws of the universe come from (gravity, inertia, etc.)?


4. How did matter get so perfectly organized?


5. Where did the energy come from to do all the organizing?


6. When, where, why, and how did life come from dead matter?


7. When, where, why, and how did life learn to reproduce itself?


8. With what did the first cell capable of sexual reproduction reproduce?


9. Why would any plant or animal want to reproduce more of its kind since this would only make more mouths to feed and decrease the chances of survival? (Does the individual have a drive to survive, or the species? How do you explain this?)


10. How can mutations (recombining of the genetic code) create any new, improved varieties? (Recombining English letters will never produce Chinese books.)


11. Is it possible that similarities in design between different animals prove a common Creator instead of a common ancestor?


12. Natural selection only works with the genetic information available and tends only to keep a species stable. How would you explain the increasing complexity in the genetic code that must have occurred if evolution were true?


13. When, where, why, and how did
a. Single-celled plants become multi-celled? (Where are the two and three-celled intermediates?)
b. Single-celled animals evolve?
c. Fish change to amphibians?
d. Amphibians change to reptiles?
e. Reptiles change to birds? (The lungs, bones, eyes, reproductive organs, heart, method of locomotion, body covering, etc., are all very different!)
f. How did the intermediate forms live?


14. When, where, why, how, and from what did:
a. Whales evolve?
b. Sea horses evolve?
c. Bats evolve?
d. Eyes evolve?
e. Ears evolve?
f. Hair, skin, feathers, scales, nails, claws, etc., evolve?


15. Which evolved first (how, and how long, did it work without the others)?
a. The digestive system, the food to be digested, the appetite, the ability to find and eat the food, the digestive juices, or the body’s resistance to its own digestive juice (stomach, intestines, etc.)?
b. The drive to reproduce or the ability to reproduce?
c. The lungs, the mucus lining to protect them, the throat, or the perfect mixture of gases to be breathed into the lungs?
d. DNA or RNA to carry the DNA message to cell parts?
e. The termite or the flagella in its intestines that actually digest the cellulose?
f. The plants or the insects that live on and pollinate the plants?
g. The bones, ligaments, tendons, blood supply, or muscles to move the bones?
h. The nervous system, repair system, or hormone system?
i. The immune system or the need for it?


16. There are many thousands of examples of symbiosis that defy an evolutionary explanation. Why must we teach students that evolution is the only explanation for these relationships?


17. How would evolution explain mimicry? Did the plants and animals develop mimicry by chance, by their intelligent choice, or by design?


18. When, where, why, and how did man evolve feelings? Love, mercy, guilt, etc. would never evolve in the theory of evolution.


19. How did photosynthesis evolve?


20. How did thought evolve?


21. How did flowering plants evolve, and from what?


22. What kind of evolutionist are you? Why are you not one of the other eight or ten kinds?


23. What would you have said fifty years ago if I told you I had a living coelacanth in my aquarium?


24. Is there one clear prediction of macroevolution that has proved true?


25. What is so scientific about the idea of hydrogen gas becoming human?


26. Do you honestly believe that everything came from nothing?



After you have answered the preceding questions, please look carefully at your answers and thoughtfully consider the following questions.


1. Are you sure your answers are reasonable, right, and scientifically provable, or do you just believe that it may have happened the way you have answered? (Do these answers reflect your religion or your science?)


2. Do your answers show more or less faith than the person who says, "God must have designed it"?




4. Is it wise and fair to present the theory of evolution to students as fact?

Have a crack miss perfect
Oh and finally, Yes I am a fundamentalist Christian.
That means I believe in the Bible.
Please take your anti religious beliefs back to Nazi Germany and the 1930s
You have no idea what you are talking about Luv.

You go get em girl.


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Jaquie S

Saturday 12th January 2008 | 10:43 PM

Thanks Gily. That's quite a response for what is obviously a light hearted jab and I admitted I am guilty of some of them myself. That makes a me a Christian in case you didn't pick up on that, and yes I can make fun of myself. I think humour is something you don't recognise or just choose not too.

I am sorry you wasted your time on a pointless comment. It looks as if you want answers to questions from someone more qualified than a blogger. Perhaps go seek them but by the sounds of it you already know the answers (nudge nudge wink wink).

And as a Christian albeit not a 'fundie' even I am smart enough to know the answer to a lot of the questions you have asked isn't 'God did it'. It seems you are the one clinging to beliefs that pre-date the 1930's - not I.

Thanks for sharing.

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Anders

Saturday 12th January 2008 | 10:51 PM

Yeah that's a rant and a half to be exact Gily. You have just demonstrated to the world (readers of this blog anwyay) that you are a tool x infinity. I ain't a Christian but my Dad is hardcore fundy and I sent him this link even he saw the funny side. Maybe have another read more carefully before you get all preachy on everyone.

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Gilly

Saturday 12th January 2008 | 11:00 PM

"Sorry about that chief"
Light hearted Jab
http://www.christianpersecution.info/
Try that sight when it comes to Christianity. The most hated and reviled persecuted Religion on the Planet.
Whats the crime
Why are they killed and imprisoned more than any other belief.
Truly, Christs teachings are based on 2 basic fundamental (fundamentalist) laws, Love and forgiveness, and that is oh such a typical atheist attack. Why not joke about having my 5 kids removed from me in case they get brainwashed.
Let me re iterate "Luv" (patronising LOL) Christians are being killed and thrown into jail more than any other group for there beliefs,
thats not a joke to me.
Love and forgiveness. 2 fundamentalists Christian Rules. No hard feelings Jaquie.
Re answers to my questions on evolution. There are none. Otherwise I would accept evolution.

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Gilly

Saturday 12th January 2008 | 11:05 PM

Oh Look
Its now in the amusing section, not the Religion section.
Clever

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Gilly

Saturday 12th January 2008 | 11:41 PM

SOOO Andy
Just a link to this "Article"?
Not all the other Anti Christian stuff on this site.
Suprise Suprise

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Rodney

Sunday 13th January 2008 | 12:47 AM

:-) Jaquie, I thought it was amusing and saw it as light hearted.

Hey Gilly, that's some post your first reply was - where did you cut & paste it from? :-p

But I'm not letting this one slip. You say Christianity is "The most hated and reviled persecuted Religion on the Planet". You *have* to be kidding, right? How about the most hating and persecuting religion on the planet, instead? That would be more accurate.

Have you even seen 1 minute of Christianity's history? The crusades? Inquisition? Pogrom after pogrom in eastern Europe? The UK expelling all non-Christians for hundreds of years? The holocaust? Guess who was on the receiving end of every one of these, by the way...

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Gilly

Sunday 13th January 2008 | 01:28 AM

Fundamentalist Christianity, buddy, does not preach violence. Should I put that on an endless loop for you? Oddly enough Christianity says I should even be nice to people here with what I say. I am trying. Not very good am I?
Re cut and paste. Yes I have provided a link in an earlier post in " the temple location". Do you want it again? Whats your IMPORTANT point?

Quote Jaquie
You know less about the Bible than your atheist and agnostic friends. End
Clearly that is Wrong in this instance.

I will spell "atheist" corractly though, but I will just copy and paste "Jaquie".
LOL

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Erin

Sunday 13th January 2008 | 02:12 AM

Jaquie,

I loved this post. Thank you for making me chuckle today.

Gilly,

Fundamentalist Christianity may not preach violence, however, it does preach exclusion and elitism. Your religion is no better than any other religion on Earth. It is just different. Your faith is your faith. Believe it as you will. Do not presume to tell me or anyone else, however, that it is the ONLY faith or the TRUE faith, because it is not. There is no such thing.

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Stacy

Sunday 13th January 2008 | 05:34 AM

The original post was excellent. Gilly's response pretty much reiterated the silliness of the fundies.
So, because you are not able to find suitable answers to your pasted questions you revert to a fairy tale as the "Default" truth? You know, it is not EVIL to wonder.....

Keep your brand of religion private and for Pete's sake, keep it out of the classroom.

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Jaquie S

Sunday 13th January 2008 | 06:59 AM

Thanks Gilly (Sorry spelled wrong the first time) I moved it to 'amusing' to emphasise the fact just in case it wasn't obvious to some (rolls eyes) ;-)

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Klinger

Sunday 13th January 2008 | 12:32 PM

After 'You think it quite reasonable that a man could horde 2 of every animal on the planet, put them in a boat, and have enough food to keep them alive for 40 days' you should add 'and was able to get each of them to successfully mate.

Top list! My neighbours kids aren't allowed to watch or read harry potter but my son who schools with them tells me they do when they are away from their parents. So far they haven't exhibited any strange behaviour after being exposed to witchcraft LOL. Poor bloody kids to have crack pot superstitious parents.

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Altoid

Sunday 13th January 2008 | 02:46 PM

Great article, I'm glad there is such a thing as a Christian with a sense of humor, unlike a certain someone who took the reigns of this comment thread.

And I hate to focus this comment on Gilly, but she brought up some points that have to be addressed.

First of all, lighten up for CHRIST's sake, this is the girl's first article, no need to drill her on the first comment.

1.) There is no way you thought up all those great points of yours by yourself; considering your track record of scientific ignorance, I seriously doubt you even know what RNA is, let alone any of your other points.

2.) Mutations produce better organisms by method of Natural Selection; if the mutation is successful, then that organism is more fit, mates more, and contributes more to the gene pool, thus creating more organisms with that trait, which are also more fit, and so on and so on.

3.) Reptiles changed into birds when small dinosaurs developed hollow bones which allowed them to run faster, then along the line, the beginnings of wings appeared, developed over many generations, then birds came to be.

4.)Macroevolution is evolution on a large scale, an example would be the domination of mammals after the destruction of the dinosaur. With their main predator gone, they populated the earth and evolved into the ancestors of every mammal in the world today.

5.)Is it fair to present the theory of gravity as a fact? It holds just as much credence as evolution, yet I doubt you don't follow Newton's theory.

6.) Do you even know what the hell you're talking about? You accuse others of being foolish and wrong, yet you offer little evidence of your own to support your ideals.

7.) Oh, and if a creator made everything from here to the horizon, then why is everything so flawed? If a person designs a wing to flap and then fly, it would look nothing like a bat's wing, as that is an evolved arm and wrist adapted for flight. Why do we have useless aspects of ourselves? We get goosebumps when it's cold, just like cats do. 98% of our genome is IDENTICAL to that of a chimps, explain that while you criticize this post, why don't ya?

While you're at it, why do you believe what you believe? Think about that for a moment.

Aside from that necessary rebuttal, I loved the article and am looking forward to more from you, a touch of humor is desperately needed in this reoccurring religious battle.

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JAson

Sunday 13th January 2008 | 04:26 PM

"why do you believe what you believe?"

Most people who follow a religion because of a little thing called indoctrination. Catholic? I bet you parents are as well. When you are raised to believe what your parents want you to believe, it's not your fault but it doesn't make you any less of a lemming. Try thinking outside your little limited box once in a while and you might be surprised what you find.

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Gilly

Sunday 13th January 2008 | 05:36 PM

So, its obviously fine for people around here to offend others for a bit of a laugh.
You are all a bunch of hypocrites.
Catholic - No
Lemmings believe in evolution with out any proof. Lemmings
And sweetie (Jaquie) You are a horribly rude little girl trying to make yourself popular at others expense. Grow up.
Alt - Congratulations sunshine. I didnt think all them up myself - DER! Answer them, to me or whoever made them up. They require an answer if you want people th believe the evolution fairy tale or as a fact. They still require an answer.
Jaquie, roll your eyes as much as you want, but you are a nasty piece of work.
I am offended. Do you feel proud?

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Anders

Sunday 13th January 2008 | 09:05 PM

Gilly - if you are offended by what is clearly a friendly dig - you are more of a twit than I thought possible. Stacy's comment pretty much sums it up. Grow up you fool.

It doesn't sound so much like you are offended so much as you are annoyed that much of what she wrote might be true. Is that the real issue? Because I can't for the life of me believe someone could be so stupid to miss what this article really is. Didn't like what you saw in the mirror? Well guess what - there was no mirror - it was comedy. It was so obvious my cat would have noticed. You are without a doubt the most idiotic moron to sit in front of a keyboard. And your first comment as Stacy said proves it.

If you want to go all fire and brimstone on people for making fun then you need to "seek professional help" like the writer says.

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Franken

Sunday 13th January 2008 | 09:15 PM

Haven't commented in a while but I just had to jump in here and put my 2 cents worth.

JAckie: Nice first article for this site. Pay no mind to any negativity.
Gilly: The word 'tool' comes to mind when reading your comments.
Anders: Glad your fundy dad could see the humour my mum did too though she wont admit she is a fundy.
Gilly: Did I mention you are a spanner?
Altoid: Nice assessment but you generalised a little.
Gilly: Words can't describe but let me throw the word "imbecile" out there.
Erin: Some fundy christians do come across as elitist shmucks agreed - but not all.

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Gilly

Sunday 13th January 2008 | 09:28 PM

Funny isnt it Jaquie how your funny little article can inspire so much hate.
Bet your proud.

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Franken

Sunday 13th January 2008 | 09:32 PM

Gilly it was you who inspired the hate everyone else can see what she wrote for what it is. I have only glanced over the comments but only yours are negative towards both her and the article. The rest of the negativity mine included is directed at you not her. Geez I thought that was a no brainer as well.

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Gilly

Sunday 13th January 2008 | 10:23 PM

Yes her little anti Christian rant has started something.
I must have missed her LOL
Oh Franken, you truly are a knight in shinning armor coming to her rescue. Our hero.
What a bunch of hypocrites. You all call it a joke then accuse me of all those points. Pathetic. Joke, ha ha.
Sigh, and then roll me eyes.
Hypocrites

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Bryan

Monday 14th January 2008 | 03:19 AM

I'm going to answer some of Gilly's comments in no particular order.

Gilly, this thread isn't anti-christian. It's just poking fun at the intolerance and persistent ignorance of *some* followers. There was no hate until you began your rant, only humor.

A child who takes a course in biology which teaches evolution can't exactly be called a lemming as he's educated on the manner. However, if a person decides to the believe something just because they were told to, then that is being a sheep.

1. Where did the space for the universe come from?

I'm not a scientist, but I believe the universe is ever-expanding.

2. Where did matter come from?

A question few people can wrap their minds around. The equivalent of "who created the creator".

3. Where did the laws of the universe come from (gravity, inertia, etc.)?

Math.

4. How did matter get so perfectly organized?

Gravity, inertia, etc.

5. Where did the energy come from to do all the organizing?

"Energy"?

6. When, where, why, and how did life come from dead matter?

There's (another) theory going around that single-celled organisms were created through chance. It seems when you combine the necessary proteins for single-celled organisms, they actually create the individual parts of the cell. Interesting, no?

7. When, where, why, and how did life learn to reproduce itself?

Good question. Unicellular or multicellular?

8. With what did the first cell capable of sexual reproduction reproduce?

It divided.

9. Why would any plant or animal want to reproduce more of its kind since this would only make more mouths to feed and decrease the chances of survival? (Does the individual have a drive to survive, or the species? How do you explain this?)

It would not decrease survivability (of the parent) because if there was not enough food, the offspring would die. I could answer this philosophically, but I don't know if animals entertain something as useless as that.

10. How can mutations (recombining of the genetic code) create any new, improved varieties? (Recombining English letters will never produce Chinese books.)

I believe this was already answered. The analogy is incredibly insufficient.

11. Is it possible that similarities in design between different animals prove a common Creator instead of a common ancestor?

This made me smile. So God has no imagination?

12. Natural selection only works with the genetic information available and tends only to keep a species stable. How would you explain the increasing complexity in the genetic code that must have occurred if evolution were true?

This can be answered by number 10, I believe.

13. When, where, why, and how did
a. Single-celled plants become multi-celled? (Where are the two and three-celled intermediates?)

Theorized that single-celled plants developed a symbiotic relationship within one another. The smaller cells became the organelles of the larger cell.

b. Single-celled animals evolve?

I'm trying to remember, but the difference between an animal and a plant is that plants are capable of producing their own food. Animals are not. So I think (I don't remember) single celled animals just floated on water eatings what nutrients floated by.

c. Fish change to amphibians?

I believe amphibians are thought to be the intermediate between fish and mammals.

d. Amphibians change to reptiles?

Don't remember.

e. Reptiles change to birds? (The lungs, bones, eyes, reproductive organs, heart, method of locomotion, body covering, etc., are all very different!)

This was answered.

f. How did the intermediate forms live?

They lived a prosperous middle-class life. Heck if I know.

Number 14 is just a repeat of number 13 except with specific animals mentioned.

Number 15 can be answered thought common sense.


16. There are many thousands of examples of symbiosis that defy an evolutionary explanation. Why must we teach students that evolution is the only explanation for these relationships?

Why didn't you provide an example? And I was clearly taught that evolution was a theory.

17. How would evolution explain mimicry? Did the plants and animals develop mimicry by chance, by their intelligent choice, or by design?

Evolution is based on the thought that organisms adapt themselves to their environment. It would only make sense that organisms in similar environments would develop similarities.

18. When, where, why, and how did man evolve feelings? Love, mercy, guilt, etc. would never evolve in the theory of evolution.

Well. For ethical reasons I'm not going to answer this. I'm not a big fan of the scientific explanation for emotions. If you really want to know, look it up. It'll make you hate science more, I imagine.

19. How did photosynthesis evolve?

What?

20. How did thought evolve?

More complex brains, higher thought, higher survival chance.

21. How did flowering plants evolve, and from what?

Stop repeating questions.

22. What kind of evolutionist are you? Why are you not one of the other eight or ten kinds?

What? I feel ignorant now.

23. What would you have said fifty years ago if I told you I had a living coelacanth in my aquarium?

My grandfather was a virgin fifty years ago.

24. Is there one clear prediction of macroevolution that has proved true?

I don't understand this question. How would we know if the prediction held true if evolution takes SEVERAL generations to bring about a noticeable change?

25. What is so scientific about the idea of hydrogen gas becoming human?

Uhm... What? Really. These questions are going downhill.

26. Do you honestly believe that everything came from nothing?

Do you?

-----------------

1. Are you sure your answers are reasonable, right, and scientifically provable, or do you just believe that it may have happened the way you have answered? (Do these answers reflect your religion or your science?)

I believe I am right and as scientific as I can be with the knowledge of a Biology I Honors class.

2. Do your answers show more or less faith than the person who says, "God must have designed it"?

I'd say faith is faith, no matter the "amount".

4. Is it wise and fair to present the theory of evolution to students as fact?

It's not. It's presented as a theory.

I've answered these to the best of my ability. If anyone would like to add something to the questions I inadequately answered, please do so.

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Tiksi

Monday 14th January 2008 | 03:24 AM

Gilly, you do realize that all you're doing is proving everyone here right? And you want evidence for evolution? Find me some evidence for creationism. And dont say the bible, I can write and edit a book too.

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Jecrell

Monday 14th January 2008 | 03:54 AM

Science is the imperfect search for answers, it is the work of mortal human beings. These dreaming men and women are imperfect, they must shed blood, sweat, tears, and eventually die trying to find the answers to the mysteries that we also dream of. Just as all humans are imperfect, I forgive them for their hostility, some of them I even love like my mother and father, who are followers of Christianity. Imperfection, to me, is what makes them fascinating. It's what makes them beautiful. It's what makes them human. I can't love something that is perfect, such as a legend of divinity and exalted perfection, but I can love my imperfect self, and I can love my imperfect friends and my imperfect family, through my eyes they are like diamonds in the rough.

I'd like to believe most of this thread is filled with psychological conditioning created by the anonymity of the internet. To create self-esteem sometimes one can look down on others to make themselves feel better about themselves, in this case you are all trying too hard to be self-serving in your own desires to fight a win or lose, right or wrong battle of opinion.

My belief is that until the very end, we're all wrong, because I believe there is no right.

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Jason

Monday 14th January 2008 | 04:04 AM

Gilly, in the interest of falling for your troll bait, I'll answer your cut and pasted questions (my answers will be concise and condescending):

1. See any modern cosmology textbook. The space always existed. It will always exist.

2. Matter is energy. Energy is matter. (see Einstein's work)

3. The laws of the universe simply are. They work the way they work whether or not we understand them.

4. Matter is not perfectly organized. Spend a Ph.D. studying glass and you'll understand just how disorganized it is.

5. The Universe has a fixed amount of energy in it. That energy can change in any way which satisfies the laws of physics. Further, we know that the universe is becoming more and more disorganized. (see heat death of the universe etc.)

6. Life arose on earth many billions of years ago. The process by which it occurred is becoming understood better and better. Amino Acids and sugar put in a beaker will spontaneously form RNA and DNA. The experiments have been done.

7. Reproduction occurred because these pieces of RNA and DNA are self-replicating, just like the ones in your body.

8. The evolution of sexual reproduction is well understood by studying yeast, which reproduces both sexually and asexually.

9. Not an evolutionary question, but I'll bite: The biology at work (in terms of single celled organisms) is to simply carry out chemical reactions. In larger organisms such as humans (which are really just a collective environment for many thousands of species of bacteria) The biochemistry is the same, the creature (or colony of creatures) take in whatever nutrients are in their environment to sustain the biochemical reactions. When they can't do that they die. Very simple. Desire has no place in biochemistry. When we discuss thought and rationality we have to remember that life is not rational. Rationally, life will cease to exist (see heat death of the universe etc.) Eventually it will cease to exist. However, until that happens, Life will continue as an exercise in futility

10. You're kidding right? If this is a serious question, then I'll direct you to any of the studies involving lamda phage and E. coli, where E.coli is specifically mutated to increase fitness and provide new abilities to the bacteria.

11. No.

12. Also not true. Natural selection doesn't keep species stable. It adapts them to their environment over time. As species become more mobile and travel to different environments, different mutations give different advantages in different environments, leading to wide ranging genetic diversity.

13. The answers to all of these questions can be found in any modern book on taxonomy.

14. a-c see the answer to 13.
d-f see any modern molecular biology textbook, or for the adventurous, the peer reviewed journal: Proceedings of the National Academy of Science. Much of the pioneering work on these areas has been published in this journal.

15. Here you're starting be be more than a bit silly. You're asking which evolved first. The response or the environmental condition. Your understanding of evolution is completely lacking. In all of these cases (except for the DNA RNA question which was answered earlier ?repeating yourself much?) The organ in question evolved in response to environmental pressure (new food, danger from bacteria, etc.)

16. Symbiosis happens as a response to evolutionary pressure. Here you're just plain wrong. If you can provide one I'll be impressed you could come up with something, and then I'll point out how the relationship evolved, and you'll cry.

17. Mimicry cannot be logically explained without evolution.

18. Feelings and emotion give selective advantage to species which reproduce sexually and have a collective (tribal or otherwise) culture. They are an evolutionary response. (See recent studies in both higher and lower primates indicating altruism, guilt, etc.) Feelings evolved in the so called lower life forms long before humans came along.

19. Photosynthesis evolved in cyanobacteria because several proteins can use the energy to create ATP. Cyanobacteria then evolved into algae, which evolved into plants.

20. See 18 above. Thought conveyed selective advantage. Evolution wins again!

21. See 19 above. Duh. Can you ask the same question over an over again...

22. I don't understand the question. I'm a scientist. Not an evolutionist. Technically, I'm a physicist. I don't know what an evolutionist is.

23. I would have asked you to show it to me. Then we'd have written it up and published in Nature (oh wait that's what happened when they found one!)

24. Whales, humans, bacteria, what more do you want. Speciation is well understood. Learn to read, and pick up a few books.

25. uh, that's the way it works? (It takes billions of years to happen, but it does)

26. No. I don't. That's what the bible say. Experimental observation tells us that isn't true. Everything was, and will continue to be.

Most of your questions can and have been thoroughly vetted, and had you bothered to actually read a few introductory textbooks, would not need to be asked or answered. In almost all of these cases, experiments have been done or evidence has been collected. Just because you haven't looked at it doesn't mean it's not there.

Now to answer your final 4 questions:

1. Yes

2. This isn't even a question. I'll address why below:

The whole problem you seem to have, Gilly, is the following: you have no understanding of what science is.

Science can't prove anything.

Science can only show how likely something is. And more specifically can put error bars around that and tell you how uncertain we are about how likely something is.

Science is about asking questions, not getting answers. In science answers only lead to more questions.

Science is built around testable ideas. Put forth any idea which can be tested, and then do the experiment. Any idea which cannot be tested is by definition NOT SCIENTIFIC!

The questions you have asked here are testable, and in all of these cases the experiments have been done. Google scholar will help you find the experiments, and you can read them for yourself. That's the way science works.

Best to all of you.

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Altoid

Monday 14th January 2008 | 05:14 AM

Damn, Jason that was one helluva post/condensed scientific journal hybrid. All of your answers seem to perfectly answer all of Gilly's copy/pasted questions.

One thing to keep in mind is that Evolution does not have goals, it hasn't got a conscience; birds didn't evolve wings in order to fly, one did (by random mutation), it was successful, it mated more, increased it's gene pool concentration, so on and so on and then birds came to be. Natural Selection works without a perfect organism in mind, just things that make beings more successful. I already made this point earlier on, but I just wanted to add that Evolution doesn't have goals, unlike the fabled Creationism.

Oh, and a little more proof of evolution; why do you get a flu shot every year? Because the virus mutates, requiring a new vaccine. Thus performing evolution.

And did anyone else notice the irony in Gilly's words, "You are a horribly rude little girl trying to make yourself popular at others expense. Grow up" Look in the mirror.

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Gillon Johannson

Monday 14th January 2008 | 06:37 AM

I loved your article, and remember: Theres an inverse relationship between the intelegence of the responder and the number of irrelevevant questions they ask in their response. You obviously got Gilly prettty worked up, and so you should be proud of yourself. Thats alot of action for as few words you used. I feel there's a place for you here in the green hued blogosphere.

Go well, and keep up the good work. Remember: "the opposite of success is conformity."

gillon

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bipolar2

Monday 14th January 2008 | 06:50 AM

**christo-myth is poison, always has been **

No need to worry about which parts of xianity are frauds -- the whole of this disgusting near eastern monstrosity is counterfeit.

It is a jewish heresy -- whose central documents offer not one shred of evidence that a “Jesus” ever existed. And, of course, they do not establish that a jewish messiah had arrived; the jews have always denied it. Nor do they establish the equally obnoxious view that a messiah would be a god of any sort. (Try getting some facts in your noodles -- xians and atheists alike -- say like reading The xians as the romans saw them. Wilken. Yale Pr.)

From its inception the xo-myth absorbed ever more gross pagan cultic symbolism and ritual. But root and stock xianity is jewish heresy -- a hellenistic jewish heresy.

Paul, an apostate hellenistic jew, tried to usurp both judaism and hellenism which put xianity on its road, through imperial Roman intervention in 313 CE, to eventual political power and the destruction of human intellectual growth and high culture for more than one thousand years. (Shutting off philosophical training in Athens, 529 CE)

Try reading your NT, 1st Corinthians, chapter 1 for starters. Michel Onfray debunks all xian lies in his Atheist Manifesto.

We, especially in the U.S., are still paying an onerous price for this so-called “sacred” legacy of vituperation, revenge, social control, and political nihilism.

Fundies and RCs -- along with their codependents and enablers among wishy-washy protestants -- pervert the teaching of science, obstruct biological research, undermine the guarantees of the first amendment, and seek to overthrow the republic, turning it into an xian dystopia, like that skewered in The Handmaid’s Tale by Canadian author, Margaret Atwood.

‘Xian truth’ -- for 2,000 years a contradiction in terms.

bipolar2
© 2008

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Kyle

Monday 14th January 2008 | 08:31 AM

Hey Gilly, where does God come from? Who made him? If you can answer that, then I will believe in Creationism.

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Jehan

Monday 14th January 2008 | 08:43 AM

In defense of Science

Science relies on faith.
Faith in induction.
Experiments are performed over and over again until we are reasonably sure that the results of an experiment represent scientific laws. We can then apply these laws to improve our every day lives.
So yes, it takes faith in the repeatability of experiments in order to believe in science.
But, science has improved the quality of life the world over. Yes, there is still poverty, but there will ALWAYS be poverty as long as there are notions of wealth. Yes there is still disease, but science has eliminated polio!
Sure, science relies on faith, but it's dynamic.
Experiments are repeatable, miracles are not.

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Jehan

Monday 14th January 2008 | 08:46 AM

Also,
Sorry Jaqui, looks like your post has been hijacked by another faith vs science debate...

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God

Monday 14th January 2008 | 08:48 AM

Nothing short of brilliant.

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Jess

Monday 14th January 2008 | 08:49 AM

Gilly,

Simply because you don't know the answers to your questions doesn't mean they are unanswerable, as many have shown. Did you even take a biology class...ever? I could answer most of these questions after a year of high school biology.

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Psychiatrist

Monday 14th January 2008 | 08:51 AM

Bipolar, I think you need an inpatient hospitalization with generous doses of lithium and quetiapine. Might help your manic delusions a bit.

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Drezta

Monday 14th January 2008 | 08:58 AM

@Jason: more proof that physicists kick ass much?

fun thread for a stumbler to find bigots are funny in all shapes and sizes, hopefully it will burn it's self out soon enough and we can all get back to believing w/eva we want without other people's believes getting jammed down our throats every 5 minuets.

good post jaqui

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Gillon

Monday 14th January 2008 | 09:00 AM

This is cool...I found where Gilly pasted her questions from word for word.

http://www.drdino.com/articles.php?spec=76

Hey Gillygirl, "if you are going to throw your intellect around like a big Girl Back it UP...Answer my few questions or slide off in to the Primordial soup for me
"

Answer "MY QUESTIONS" she says...Well friends, this is the kind of mentality that will most likely be the death of us all. But gillygirl is not worried, she is headed to a better life AFTER this one.

gillon

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Gillon

Monday 14th January 2008 | 09:03 AM

Isn't there a case for plagerism here??

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McCracken Fool

Monday 14th January 2008 | 09:05 AM

I loved it, and I am a Christian, I think there is a strong difference between those most of us would refer to as fundamentalists, or extremists. Anyone who believes the earth was created less than 10,000 years ago has obviously got some learning problems.

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J

Monday 14th January 2008 | 09:21 AM

Just thought I'd point out that Dawkins is really worth reading, especially the Selfish Gene. It proposes and answers some very interesting questions about evolution, the most notable of which is simply that evolution doesn't care about individuals. Everything's just a propogation of the lowest form of life, the gene.

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Kelsey

Monday 14th January 2008 | 09:23 AM

Gilly, the only hate this post has caused, is the hatred which has spewed forth from you. Learn to tolerate differences in opinion, practice what you preach.

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FatOtis

Monday 14th January 2008 | 09:25 AM

wow.

evolution is a change in the inherited traits of a population from one generation to the next. it's not a 'theory'; it's observable and measurable.

thanks jaquie for the humorous blog

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Frodo Muggins

Monday 14th January 2008 | 09:29 AM

Laugh out loud stuff Jackie. At least the majority here agree it was funny.

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Luis

Monday 14th January 2008 | 09:34 AM

To the woman who wrote the Fundamentalist piece should cease watching Real Time with Bill Maher and consider thinking for yourself. This entry is simply an insipid regurgitation of what you hear from the obnoxious Real Time host.

Just a suggestion but if you are going to to write a piece that asserts that you are superior to other humans, I would try to be original.

Let me guess you voted for Nader.

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Rob Draige

Monday 14th January 2008 | 09:35 AM

Adding to Klinger's comment @ https://rustylime.com/show_article.php?id=1106#comm8887

...I would like to also know how Noah was able to travel across the ocean to all the continents to bring back 2 of every species and keep them alive for the duration of that journey.

Stop and think about it for a second - can you imagine the logistical challenge we would face even today if we wanted to collect 2 of every species and put them in the one place? and that is even with the cooperation of people in other countries. So if you believe the story of Noah, get your head checked.

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Johnson

Monday 14th January 2008 | 09:39 AM

While I didn't find this article funny or interesting its still obviously a joke. The gilly girl and anyone else who couldn't see that shouldn't be allowed on the internet.

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Will

Monday 14th January 2008 | 09:44 AM

To Gilly's 4th question. 4. How did matter get so perfectly organized?

Matter isn't perfectly organised and a lot of matter is unstable and deadly under certain conditions.

My guess is you haven't read any biology or physics or science books in your entire life, so the god explanation suites you better. Its sad really. It tickles me pink to know science is answering more and more questions every day but fundamentalist morons still cling to their unproven myths. Hand covering ears shouting "not listening! not listening!"

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Gillon

Monday 14th January 2008 | 09:46 AM

I can't help myself....Jaquie's article/post is far from a joke. I thought it was mis-catagorized. Most of the one liners are about as close to the tree as the apples can fall.

So it is with deep regret and a heavy heart that I announce that I will not seek to access the internet ever, ever again.

Goodby to all my old friends, I will miss you.
g

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Evil Roy

Monday 14th January 2008 | 10:06 AM

I would be willing to bet that we've seen the last of GIlly. People like her don't truly want their beliefs challenged. Read between the lines of her posts and you will see evidence of most of the points listed in the original list.

Giving religious people credit for intelligence is a bad way to start, Trying to explain to them the ins and outs of cosmology, micro- and macro-biology, chemistry, physics, etc. is an absolute waste of time.

When it comes to science-hard, religion-refuting science--religious folks are ignorant. Now, that in itself wouldn't necessarily disqualify them from rational debate, but in this milieu they are being WILLFULLY ignorant.

I am not saying that religious people are stupid ignorant about everything--they may have a high degree of innate intelligence, but they are choosing not to use it in the context of rational evaluations regarding the existence of their gods.

By way of analogy, Let's take a look at Hugo. Hugo paints, plays several musical instruments, sculpts, writes, and does origami--all with a high degree of skill. But Hugo can't sing. He has a terrible voice. When he sings in the shower, the locals speak in whispers of the chupacabra. Would anyone refer to Hugo as untalented? Certainly not. But if I want to take singing lessons, would you recommend I go see Hugo? Again, certainly not. Because in the context of singing, he IS untalented. And if, when discussing the art of singing with Hugo we go out of our way to praise his skill, aren't we being both insincere and condescending?

Every human has some degree of intelligence. Sometimes we make use of that intelligence and sometimes we let others tell us what to think. Religion is letting others tell us what to think. Within the context of rational religious debate, religious folks lack the requisite tool: an open mind. Since they have closed their minds on purpose, arguing with them is pointless.

When someone says that, for them empirical proof can be found in a 2000-year-old book that has been losing battles over "truth", both scientific and social, since the day it was written, I think that we can say that in the context of religion, they ARE unintelligent. They are not using the tools necessary for intelligent thought. They are letting the views of others become their own without any critical evaluation as to the truth of those views. And that is most certainly not intelligent.

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Gray

Monday 14th January 2008 | 10:08 AM

Okay. Scientific "theory" is highly different from non-scientific theory. I could theorize that the moon is made of cheese, and that's why the moon landing was faked. Does that make it teachable in schools? No!

Non-scientific theory is an abstract assumption, based on little or no evidence.

Scientific theory, on the other hand, is a set of statements used to describe a group of facts, or phenomena. Especially when it's been repeatably tested and accepted as the truth barring new facts to the contrary. When those new facts are found, the theory is adjusted to be the closest to truth that it can be, and so on.

That's what science does. It changes for new evidence. Belief and faith are good. But they can't be proven.

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Snarf

Monday 14th January 2008 | 10:30 AM

Jaquie, I don't care if you were made by God or came from an ape, you're cute. Gilly is an idiot to act like an idiot to a hottie such as yourself. Amen.

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Evil Roy

Monday 14th January 2008 | 10:39 AM

I would disagree with Gray that belief and faith are good. Belief is neutral. Faith is a subtype of belief--it is belief in spite (perhaps because of ) a complete lack of evidence. IOW, faith is, at it's core, an utter rejection of rationality. Nothing good can come from rejecting reality.

In any other facet of life besides religion we would consider an absolute rejection of demonstrable truths to be evidence of insanity. But plug the god of your choice into the equation, and suddenly faith is transformed from a mental illness to a virtue. Faith is not a virtue--it is a sickness. There are spontaneous remissions, but there is no cure.

If you someone pulls out the old "I have faith, so it's true for me . . " argument, it's exactly the same as saying, "I don't care about any conceivable evidence you could show me--I refuse to listen to any of it." How could this possibly be "good"?

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bob Dole

Monday 14th January 2008 | 10:44 AM

Where the Christians practicing "love and forgiveness" when the were killing the Indians?

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bob Dole

Monday 14th January 2008 | 10:46 AM

The Koran also preaches non violence.

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Gillon

Monday 14th January 2008 | 10:58 AM

And Now....directly from a speaking engagement in Lobster Valley, Oregon....bob Dole.....Please tell us Senator: Would you carry this as far as Christopher Colombus, the inqusition, and the wholesale slaughter of millions in the name of god, or would you limit it to Islam and Pilgrims? Also could you please comment on the ties between the incidents you mentioned, and their connection with, and relationship to events happening in american politics today. Please Senator, the podium is yours....I forgot, I cant be on the net any more.
g

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sean

Monday 14th January 2008 | 11:04 AM

I'm always amazed how these intelligent thought websites , always pick on Christian ideology. Never Islam. They are always willing to non debate against 'turn the other cheek' Christian sects. So just to show how fair you guys are about this ,I forward these web sites to Fundamentalism Islam web sites and explain how your web site disputes Allah's existence and even ridicule their beliefs. Mostly Wahhabi sects that are rather , let's say, very opinionated about their beliefs. So I hope we all can have a sit down with these chaps and you can explain how foolish they are. I'm sure your not a coward.
Peace out

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cap

Monday 14th January 2008 | 11:05 AM

yet another stumbler...

Interesting point that I don´t think anybody brought up is that Gilly should have been ignored for the ignoramus she is. Even answering her questions is allowing the creationist ticket to have equal ground with evolution, obliviously not a fair fight when the one based on scientific reason makes as a premise that it would be best served by being proved wrong and the other creationism can not be proved because religion is intrisically based on faith , if it could be prove it would no longer be religion but science, the mind boogles. Have I made an idiot of myself by defeating my own point and posting here, quite possibly...

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Black Xanthus

Monday 14th January 2008 | 11:30 AM

Dear All,

I would like to appologise most profusely for Gilly's words. It appears that there is a breakdown somewhere in her rational processess.

I would also like to try and stop the whole idea that Christians are in someone less intelligent than Scientists. That then leads us into an entire argument about the "supersitions". Christianity and all other religions suffer the same problem.

People like Gilly give those of us that are trying to bring a liberal view to Christianity a very bad name. It's bad enough already. Christianity has been used and abused for a very long time. We have a lot of gound to cover, and a lot of things to appologise for.

Gensis (the first book of the Bible, and source for Creationism) is that it is the only story of it's type. If Crationism is to be counted as "valid", then so is the idea that we are created from the tears of a God, or that the world is a woman curled up that dust settled on. They too are also valid. Where's the lobby to teach these in schools? What about the Dance of the Lord and Lady? (the Wiccan Myth). That religion easily pre-dates Christianity, and as such surly their Creation Myth is more accurate? (comming from a time closer to when the world began (according to creationism), therefore they would have more first-hand knowledge of what happened, and so, as any historian will tell you, first hand knowledge wins from second-hand knowledge. (being told by someone else, in this case, God).

Also, Genesis Chapters 1 and 2 do not even agree on an order. Was it Animals or Humans that came first?

All of the older religions have a creation myth. All of them, some range from the bizzare to the cute (I cound the Geneis one as one of the few saner ones. IF the world really was created by a God, I'd rather it wasn't sneezed out). It was written for the benefit of a tribe, based on the information that was available to them (very little).

I am a Christian. I'm in the processess of becoming a Vicar. I will quite happily accept Evolution it makes sense, and I don't see how it in any way detracts from the wonderful existance of God.

The original post was wonderfully crafted, and definately aimed at the Fundamentalist. Any kind of fundamentalism is dangerous. I know it's a very emotive subject, but we all have to be careful to not let emotion get in the way of a healthy discussion. I have seen bile spat on both sides of this debate, and I do worry about where it will all end.

I have to say I laughed, I also laughed at some of the responses. Do not get into the water unless you know you can swim Gilly. Atheists probably Do know the Bible better than you do. Perhaps you should go back and read the only definition of God that's in the Bible. "God Is Love". Take a look at your post, see the hatred that is in there of their views because they are different from yours.

Take time to re-read the original post. See the Humour, enjoy it for what it is. If you can't, then read the post again, and see which points you truly do fall under.

I will pray for you, Gilly, and all fundamentalists, that their hearts, minds and wills will be changed so that we can live in a tolerant and understanding society, what Jesus sought to bring about in the first place.

Thanks,

Black Xanthus

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Steven

Monday 14th January 2008 | 12:22 PM

Yeah, umm... ok. This is absurd. I'm just in high school and I'm looking down at all of you. This post was made to make you laugh, to bring something happy into your life, and look at you. Sitting at your computers trying to make each other look foolish, over something so insignificant to religion. This was made to humor you, not anger you! I laughed! I really did. And then I see Gilly's comment and its like someone took a dump on my happiness. Don't spark some useless Faith vs. Science debate. When Jeff Foxworthy does a "You might be a redneck" joke, nobody go's off on him telling him "Well, what makes a redneck? Do they even exist? No they don't! Yes they do!"
You all think you're super smart because you have knowledge of something that changes lives, but knowledge is useless without action. Well-educated doesn't mean success. It doesn't even mean influence.

And so, I leave you with this.
Christians believe evolution is wrong.
Atheists believe God doesn't exist.
Where the hell did all the love go?

Nothing will ever prove the Bible right, and nothing will ever prove evolution right, because the only thing that will really be taken as evidence has to be seen "through the eyes of the beholder".

The only way to see evolution is to live through one million years, and the only way to see God is to DIE.

So why do we believe in anything? We don't. We take them on FAITH.

And with that, I say good day, and a happy new year.

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Steven

Monday 14th January 2008 | 12:39 PM

I forgot something in my last comment.

Couldn't evolution be the answer to how, and not why?

I believe in a Creator (not the Christian God, but a Creator no less) and I have accepted the fact that some questions will never be answered, and so instead of living my life in confusion and trying to figure out "what brings us all together" I just know that whatever happened, happened, so stop trying to make an understanding of the past, try to "evolve" the present into a future we will all enjoy.

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honestape

Monday 14th January 2008 | 12:45 PM

The list is hilarious, but Gilly is funnier by far. I want to answer Gilly's questions, because it amuses me to do so. And, because it amuses me further, I'll answer each question with questions.


1. Where did the space for the universe come from?
Where did God come from? Was he created by another, superior God?

2. Where did matter come from?
Where did the matter that God used to make the world come from?

3. Where did the laws of the universe come from (gravity, inertia, etc.)?
Don't you mean "Why IS there Gravity?" Do you understand that the Law of Gravity is something used by humans to describe a force?

4. How did matter get so perfectly organized?
Who says matter is perfectly organized? Is not chaos all around us and throughout the Universe?

5. Where did the energy come from to do all the organizing?
If God provided the energy to "do all the organizing," where was it from originally?

6. When, where, why, and how did life come from dead matter?
What was God created from? How, exactly did that take place?

7. When, where, why, and how did life learn to reproduce itself?
Why do you think life "learned" to reproduce itself. And is that something that can be learned? Isn't this a stupid question?

8. With what did the first cell capable of sexual reproduction reproduce?
How did God make Adam out of simple dirt?

9. Why would any plant or animal want to reproduce more of its kind since this would only make more mouths to feed and decrease the chances of survival? (Does the individual have a drive to survive, or the species? How do you explain this?)
Why would God want to create a species, only to allow its children to be raped, burned and killed in the millions? Why would he want humanity to reproduce, only to suffer?

10. How can mutations (recombining of the genetic code) create any new, improved varieties? (Recombining English letters will never produce Chinese books.)
If you were to take English letters and warp them enough, could you not form Chinese letters?

11. Is it possible that similarities in design between different animals prove a common Creator instead of a common ancestor?
Is it also possible that it does not prove this? Are not both things possible?

12. Natural selection only works with the genetic information available and tends only to keep a species stable. How would you explain the increasing complexity in the genetic code that must have occurred if evolution were true?
Do you even understand this question? Did you read it before you cut and paste it?

13. When, where, why, and how did
a. Single-celled plants become multi-celled? (Where are the two and three-celled intermediates?)
b. Single-celled animals evolve?
c. Fish change to amphibians?
d. Amphibians change to reptiles?
e. Reptiles change to birds? (The lungs, bones, eyes, reproductive organs, heart, method of locomotion, body covering, etc., are all very different!)
f. How did the intermediate forms live?
When, where and why did you begin to think that God would not want his creatures to think freely and discover the world around them? Why do you think that evolution is not God's way of creation? Can you not consider thoughts that are not fed to you?

14. When, where, why, how, and from what did:
a. Whales evolve?
b. Sea horses evolve?
c. Bats evolve?
d. Eyes evolve?
e. Ears evolve?
f. Hair, skin, feathers, scales, nails, claws, etc., evolve?
How can creatures exist today that did not exist when the Earth was created? Does God stop by Earth and make creations here and there?


15. Which evolved first (how, and how long, did it work without the others)?
a. The digestive system, the food to be digested, the appetite, the ability to find and eat the food, the digestive juices, or the body’s resistance to its own digestive juice (stomach, intestines, etc.)?
b. The drive to reproduce or the ability to reproduce?
c. The lungs, the mucus lining to protect them, the throat, or the perfect mixture of gases to be breathed into the lungs?
d. DNA or RNA to carry the DNA message to cell parts?
e. The termite or the flagella in its intestines that actually digest the cellulose?
f. The plants or the insects that live on and pollinate the plants?
g. The bones, ligaments, tendons, blood supply, or muscles to move the bones?
h. The nervous system, repair system, or hormone system?
i. The immune system or the need for it?
Aren't you really copying and pasting these questions out of ignorance? Are there any answers that would satisfy you in this regard?

16. There are many thousands of examples of symbiosis that defy an evolutionary explanation. Why must we teach students that evolution is the only explanation for these relationships?
If you believe that creationism should be taught in schools, should we not also teach the ideas of creation that other religions believe to be true?

17. How would evolution explain mimicry? Did the plants and animals develop mimicry by chance, by their intelligent choice, or by design?
Is this an attempt to explain the success of Rich Little and Fred Travelena?

18. When, where, why, and how did man evolve feelings? Love, mercy, guilt, etc. would never evolve in the theory of evolution.
Do you think that such feelings only exist because we are told by the bible to have them? If God created these feelings, why would he also create racism and hatred?

19. How did photosynthesis evolve?
Can you explain to me, without the use of the internet, what photosynthesis is? Do you understand the question?

20. How did thought evolve?
Aren't your questions getting repetitive?

21. How did flowering plants evolve, and from what?
Isn't this repetition making it harder for me to be witty?

22. What kind of evolutionist are you? Why are you not one of the other eight or ten kinds?
Why do you believe in one God and not the other Gods that exist and also have bibles?

23. What would you have said fifty years ago if I told you I had a living coelacanth in my aquarium?
Were you alive 50 years ago to pose such a question? Do you know what a coelacanth is?

24. Is there one clear prediction of macroevolution that has proved true?
Has God ever been proven?

25. What is so scientific about the idea of hydrogen gas becoming human?
What's so heavenly about the idea of dirt becoming man? Isn't it odder to think that we came from dirt than apes?

26. Do you honestly believe that everything came from nothing?
Do you honestly believe God came from nothing?

After you have answered the preceding questions, please look carefully at your answers and thoughtfully consider the following questions.

1. Are you sure your answers are reasonable, right, and scientifically provable, or do you just believe that it may have happened the way you have answered? (Do these answers reflect your religion or your science?)
Isn't this question a little ridiculous considering you haven't shared a shred of your own thought in this post?

2. Do your answers show more or less faith than the person who says, "God must have designed it"?
Who states that one must have faith in something to posit the possibility it exists? Who states having theories is the same as blindly believing in said theories?

3. Why did you not include a #3 in your list of final four questions?
Is it because you're an idiot who copied and pasted most of their questions? Is it because you can count above three only when copying another student's paperwork?

4. Is it wise and fair to present the theory of evolution to students as fact?
Is it wise and fair to present your Religious beliefs as fact to those that believe their Religious beliefs are fact?

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sarah

Monday 14th January 2008 | 01:35 PM

honestape!! that is hilarious!!!!!!!

props!

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Peggy

Monday 14th January 2008 | 01:36 PM

Im a christain but nutjobs like gilly give christianity a bad name and it makes me ashamed. How idiots take what is writen in the bible as literal is astonishing in our modern age.

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Greg

Monday 14th January 2008 | 01:44 PM

Because I studied biology it amazes me people will accept god made someone out of dirt but cant accept one organism can evolve into another.

Jumping on the gilly bashing bandwagon now, she appears in need of a clue. I particularly like her number 7 question --- When, where, why, and how did life learn to reproduce itself?

Demonstrating without a doubt you havent read any biology or evolution books and are therefore accepting god without being adequately informed. Life doesn't 'learn' to reproduce. Heard of something called natural selection? So many people think evolution is just dumb luck or chance but its actually the complete opposite.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Natural_selection

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doG

Monday 14th January 2008 | 02:12 PM

Gilly-

Your absolutist, self-rightous views betray your intelligence... or not.

Thanks for posting your 'science quiz'. I now see why you beleive in a 'Christian God' and reject the theory of evolution. It's easier to 'beleive' than it is to 'think'.

I wouldn't be surprised if you're the type that watches Fox News and thinks (if we can call it that)...

Sadam planned 9/11.

Obama is a Muslim.

We already found WMD's in Iraq.

Ron Paul is a loon.

Hillary is the devil in a blue pantsuit.

If we leave Iraq, terrorists will follow us home.

Bush is doing a great job.

That Fox News is actually news...

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Kait

Monday 14th January 2008 | 04:04 PM

Thanks for the laugh.

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Stacy P.

Monday 14th January 2008 | 04:23 PM

According to Webster's New World Dictonary:

Satire - n. 1 a literary work in which vices, follies, etc. are held up to ridicule and contempt 2 the use of ridicule, sarcasm, etc. to attack vices, follies, etc.

As I see it, this article is clearly satire, and fairly well done at that. To my understanding, good satire is designed to be humorous to those with the same views as the writer and a pointed jab, (note the word 'attack' right in the definition), to those who hold the views being satirized.

Fundamentalist Christians, like all other people of Faith, 'practice' their chosen religion. This implies that they have not attained perfection. So while, Gilly's response may have been overly aggressive, (and not the best example of the principles of Christianity), it is in the nature of all of us as imperfect humans, (whether created or evolved), to defend when attacked. Right or wrong, the emotion is understandable.

This was a very interesting Stumble.

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honestape

Monday 14th January 2008 | 04:46 PM

Thanks, Sarah!

And I agree with Stacy, this was a great stumble.

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Harrison Beaver

Monday 14th January 2008 | 07:38 PM

And the scores at the moment are:

Fundamentalists: 0
Sane people: 66

Made my afternoon thanks.

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Cate Sullivan

Monday 14th January 2008 | 08:09 PM

I'll admit I didn't read through al the comments, but in response to the first one, I will say this:
a) I am not a physicist, and therefore cannot help you with the physics related questions.
b) I am a catholic scientist. science and christianity do not have to be at odds. I know priests who believe in evolution. This argument is immature. And I notice that fundamentalist christians start insulting people who question their beliefs. That's mature.
c) I appreciate your actual questions. I have yet to meet a creationist who is actually familiar with evolution. Not that you are, but at least it seems like you'd like to be.
d) I will not take the time to answer your biology questions now. Google will answer half, and Evolution is the answer to the rest. Just google 4th grade biology.
e) This question I particularly enjoyed: how did the first sexual reproducing cell reproduce? Cells have ways of producing both sexually and asexually. that's how.
f) and yes, things do point to a common creator. I do not protest that. And not all scientists are.
g) organic molecules from dead matter such as lipids led to the formation of cell walls in the presence of water because their tails are hydrophobic. Other organic molecules could comprise the rest of a cell. Experiments have tried to duplicate ancient earth and have proved that these organic molecules have been formed. That doesn't go to say that God didn't have anything to do with it or that He did not cause the Big Bang. Stop trying to win.
h) science is amazing and it should be proof that God exists. Fundamentalist Christians, educate yourselves. There's some cool shit out there. How can you deny that? It's practically proof that there is a God. And the some of it that doesn't directly contradict the Bible confirms that which you say does. It all works together. This will never end. So stop denying everything which you don't like and educate yourself. Why does it have to be like this?
I hope that is sufficient for a start.

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Mattus

Monday 14th January 2008 | 08:28 PM

What if 'Gilly' was not female? What if Gilly was actually a muslim nutjob wanting to cause a stir?What if 'science', as we know it, was started by God to teach us to learn for ourselves, but kept him/herself out of the loop? What if God believes in staying out of it, and letting the human race take care of themselves?

What if 'Earth' is nothing but a test run for the real world?

But then, you strong, science types should have been able to figure things like that out, and would never have worried about Gilly's sentiments.

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Rodney

Monday 14th January 2008 | 08:59 PM

Hi Mattus, just so you know, Gilly is not female; Gilly is male. The first post referring to him as a her is an error.

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Sharon

Monday 14th January 2008 | 11:54 PM

Gilly? We haven't heard from you since your cut/paste questions were answered, sweety... Surely you have some sort of rebuttal? Hopefully your silence indicates that you are off actually reading books and educating yourself. Your ignorance was shameful...

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JoH

Tuesday 15th January 2008 | 01:28 AM

"You are arrogant enough to think the Earth and its inhabitants are the centre of and only life in the entire universe, despite it being statistically impossible."

This statement is a bit strong, though. We don't know quite enough yet to confidently make that statistical argument. The weak anthropic principle could still kick in... :)

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Juan Q.

Tuesday 15th January 2008 | 02:21 AM


I have to say that both scientific and religious theories of where everything came from, are impossible to answer there will always be the sort of question. "what was first the chicken or the egg"

we have to learn to understand that not everything can be proven and that none of the theories are correct. I can not prove that god does exist but I can not prove that he doesn't. so what options do I have? I choose not to believe in anything. Others can choose to believe. if there ever is a judgment day and I am condemned to go to hell or rewarded with heaven let it be. for now I'll be neutral.

I have to say that religion is a nice thing to a certain limit just as is alcohol, food, sex and all things that make us happy. if you have too much bible to read than most likely you'll go insane and start screaming in the middle of a public park with a megaphone that all which don't repent will go to hell. if you have too much food most likely you will have bad health. all things in excess are bad even god and yes even science.

I think the bible is a book of thoughts and stories that are not to be taken literally it has nice instructions to how to live a nice life. For example Jesus's teachings of love, to accept all as equal and to help a brother in need. I think it is all a nice teaching.

Instead of busting your own balls trying to answer stupid questions like “if god created humans who created god” go and live you life to the fullest be good or be bad I don't care. It is sad to see so many people that are willing to die for an idea or a religion.

And to answer any further question if I am an atheist or a religious. I am neither I am neutral

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Yoda

Tuesday 15th January 2008 | 02:40 AM

-Juan Q. "And to answer any further question if I am an atheist or a religious. I am neither I am neutral "

Do, or do not. There is no try.

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Christine

Tuesday 15th January 2008 | 03:04 AM

I don't know. I feel like I've been attacked for believing something. Would you feel the same way if somebody was throwing out harsh jokes about Jews or those "crazy" Indians with their Tribal beliefs...I just want people to give me the same respect that every one else wants. It seems setting up those"kooky" Christians for a joke is today's excuse for scathing hatred.

Everybody hates the guy who says the "joke" was tasteless and harsh. Doesn't mean it wasn't.

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honestape

Tuesday 15th January 2008 | 03:10 AM

@Mattus

I've always just assumed I was a meat-bag battery for the robots and the world is a virtual reality program.

I've tried to find a religion that believes the same, but I've been yet unable to do so.

ALL HAIL OUR ROBOTIC OVERLORDS!

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honestape

Tuesday 15th January 2008 | 03:12 AM

Lest I forget to add this amidst the brouhaha - Welcome to Rusty Lime, Jaquie! If all your articles are this good, I'll be a subscriber for a long time.

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woots

Tuesday 15th January 2008 | 08:04 AM

haha. so great post, lets see the comments covered religion, evolution, fox news, ron paul, trolls, islam, "i'm in high school and even I know", and plenty of flaming. Good times good times.

Have you ever stopped and thought about why does it matter so much where we came from and where we are going? What about now? solving our problems that are right here and now.

and with that we have finally added buddhism to the list.

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nelson davis

Tuesday 15th January 2008 | 09:01 AM

Fuck right wing, conservative Christians. As a matter of fact, fuck all right wing conservative believers of any religion.

I have an extremest view of how to save the world; take all extremest Christians, Jews, Moslem's, Hindus (and anyone else not mentioned), but them up against a wall, and shoot them, yep, kill them.

The world would be much better off with only moderates and some liberals to keep us amused.

Fuck extremists, and if your one of them, fuck you.

Thanks!

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Claus

Tuesday 15th January 2008 | 09:29 AM

When i look at most of the replies to your post, Jaquie S, you proved right in every single word you wrote. Nazi-Germany, as "Gill" so enthusiastically (being Christian's favorite punchline when you dare to question their archaic belief-system) threw in your face was in fact much more tolerant than Christians generally are, with absolutely no respect for other people whatsoever - not only against Jews.

That is exactly what came through here. Thank you for once again documenting that Christians and Christianity are the "nazi-religion" of the 21st Century, saluting hypocrisy and condemnation in the name of a Jewish "god-devil" and a Walmart-quality-figurine, Jesus, that never existed as a historical person.

Oh, and "where did the whales come from"???? You tell me, Gill. "god" probably popped one out of his big ass one Sunday when he woke up drunk after having fucked with Christians during the week, don't ya think?

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Tuesday 15th January 2008 | 09:30 AM

Wow ! all this from a simple joke.

To the extremist Christians, you guys need to practice what you preach, Jesus did not judge even when it was clear others did wrong. Go look it up it's not hard to find, judge yourself and not someone else just because they are a .

For the religion hater people, damn you guys make me laugh as everything (almost) you see as bad about you pretty much do yourself, you need to get over the pointless name calling an accept other people see things in a completely different way to you. It's not an attack on your beliefs just because they don't believe what you do (goes for religious nuts too) it's just a part of life.

Seriously guys this was a funny post and all your retarded self issues have made most of you all look like tools, well done!

Thanks for posting though Jaquie, was a good laugh and gave me more faith in our online community *rolls eyes* :)

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Jaquie S

Tuesday 15th January 2008 | 09:55 AM

Wow what a response! I have read every comment and it wasn't my intention to throw rocks at the hornets nest. Let me thank everyone who 'got it' and those who 'came to my rescue'. There are some passionate people here on both sides of the fence even though it seems one side is in the majority :-)

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chillout

Tuesday 15th January 2008 | 10:07 AM

Nelson, your just as bad as them. calm down. I hope you didnt mean any of that.

Religion can be a good thing. Most of our civilization is too young to grasp such a concept (evolution). some people would be completely devastated to learn god didnt exist. Chaos would erupt and mass depression.

It prevents some people from committing crimes they otherwise normally would. In fear that they might go to a firey place where a man with horns and pitch fork enslaves them for eternity.

I loved those anti smoking ads on TV that shows the passenger cabin of a commercial jet liner in the 70s. It shows most of the people smoking cigarettes and proud of it. Then is says:

"WHAT WERE WE THINKING?"

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Claus

Tuesday 15th January 2008 | 10:13 AM

So now we understand that the post was just "for fun" and nobody meant to "harm' anybody's feelings, and lalalalalala and aren't we all silly.

And now we are "religion-haters" because we take this "too serious" in a time where right-wing religion has taken it's toll on our educational system, our reputation abroad, and on the civil liberties in this country.

Well, enjoy your little, cosy "roll-eye" community, we shall not waste our time with high-school kids who prank about serious things like religion, pro et con.

Goodbye (and no, I will not return for any further reading or replying to any comments) to rustylime.com, I promise I will spread the good word.

Oh, and Anonamoose: your intellectual lack of capacity so brilliantly proven in the following sentence:

"For the religion hater people, damn you guys make me laugh as everything (almost) you see as bad about you pretty much do yourself,..."

gives you no right to talk down to educated people. Or any other people, for that matter. Go read some books and try to finish elementary school, before you make a come back.

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Edwin

Tuesday 15th January 2008 | 11:26 AM

To answer all of Gilly's questions:

A logical man or woman will say 'I do not know' when given a question they do not know the answer to.

A fundamentalist christian will say 'GOD DID IT.' Hmmm.

Scientists do not have every answer, but we do not make up answers to cover ourselves. As for christians not promoting violence have you ever heard of the Spanish inquisition? The Crusades? The bombing of abortion clinics?

And ask yourself do you only belive in God because you parents told you too and your social group would cast you out if you became an atheist? What a loving community. I bet you welcome all the gays with welcome arms and burning torches!

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Jake

Tuesday 15th January 2008 | 11:43 AM

Jaquie S, loved the article, I'm a huge fan of Jeff Foxworthy (I may have given away too much of my self by stating that) and really enjoyed your post. I loved the reference to Ted Haggard too!

1: You might be a fundie if you assume that every other caucasian in your workplace is an equally pious christian.
2: you... if you picket abortion clinics but refuse to acknowledge that millions of children live in extreme poverty and squalor as orphans due to their parents inability to care for a child.
3: you... if you refer to christians who do not interpret the bible literally as, 'the whores of babalon' and exclude them from christianity.
4:... if you tell your kids not to do something, 'or the baby jesus will cry'.
5:... if you are against war or violence and still call yourself a, 'soldier of christ'.
6:... if you use the same sounds that many tallented vocalists use to warm up their voice and call it 'speaking in tongues'.
7:... If you use the same language used in high school speach and drama classes called 'jibberish' and call it 'speaking in tongues'.
8:... if you teach children to make the sounds I make when I gag on a jallapenio (that was so spicy that god herself could not ingest it) and call it 'speaking in tongues'.
9:... if you believe that a dude who died 2,000 years ago (i.e. at least 1,900 years before you were born) died for YOUR sins.
10:... You worked your ass off during school, university and now for 40hours a week and still thank god for your pay cheque. (My favorite).

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Alton

Tuesday 15th January 2008 | 12:51 PM

"Gilly is not female; Gilly is male", perhaps that misunderstanding would explain his argumentativeness...

"what came first, the chicken or the egg", this is actually an example of evolution; the answer is the farmer. Ever heard of wild chickens grazing in the wilderness? That would be because humans practiced artificial selection and crossed different breeds of birds to produce them. This is the same with most animals produced for food, such as cows.

Well in Gilly's defense, I don't think there's much point in attacking him anymore, the fun's all gone now.

Congrats Jaquie for your first article getting so many comments, I look forward to more in the future!

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Greg D

Tuesday 15th January 2008 | 02:15 PM

What can be asserted without proof can be dismissed without proof.

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Stacy P.

Tuesday 15th January 2008 | 02:56 PM

Alton - Perhaps I misunderstood, but your post seems to be suggesting farmers 'created' chickens from different breeds of birds, which were not chickens. Could you please give a reference work where I can look up this information about chickens, cows and "most animals produced for food".
I think you may be mistaken about this. Chickens did, I believe graze, in the wilderness in China and India and many other places before being domesticated and subsequently cross bred to make specific traits dominant. I think you may find this true of cows and other animals raised for food.
I would be very interested in any information you might have about this.
Thank you

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Jake

Tuesday 15th January 2008 | 03:57 PM

Stacy P. this is a widely accepted fact, I heard about it first in High School Biology:

The Red Junglefowl, Gallus gallus, is a tropical member of the Pheasant family and the direct ancestor of the domestic chicken. It was first raised in captivity at least 5,000 years ago in India, and the domesticated form has been taken all around the world as a very productive food source for both meat and eggs, which some breeds have been specifically developed to produce.

The range of the true species stretches from northeast India (where the pure species has almost certainly been diluted with back-crosses from domestic breeds) eastwards across southern China and down into Malaysia and Indonesia. The birds are also domesticated in Kenya. They were probably introduced into the country by the influx of Indians during the early 1900's, when they were brought into Kenya to build the railway.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Red_Junglefowl

So there!

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John Q. Citizen

Tuesday 15th January 2008 | 04:01 PM

Gilly,

You are an abject idiot. I did not even even have to read more than a few lines of your desperate, hysterical screed to realize this fact. PROTIP: If you are going to cut and paste, make sure there is some consistency in spelling and punctuation. Your contributions stick out in that mess like a man nailed to a cross.

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Jake

Tuesday 15th January 2008 | 04:13 PM

Jesus on a stick John Q, Totally unnecessary!

Gilly basilcally represents 'the other side of the fence', i.e. all of those people who literally take the bible as the 'word of god'.

Sure, as a non believer, I think his view is simplistic and unevolved (teehee), but surely you can empathise that his view of your belief is eaqually simplistic.

The Gillmeister's assertions represent a great number of the world's population and hence are valid.

In saying that, I'm pretty sure this site would not be anywhere near as provocative if no one debated.

Personally, I'd love to have a coffee with Gilly and discuss the ecconomic validity of the futures market, or religion, which ever came up first.

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lea

Tuesday 15th January 2008 | 05:16 PM

Im not going to pick on Gilly now b/c every post here has mentioned her. And i did too. Nice. Anyway.
I just want you guys to check out a link from an episode of trading spouses i found (dont ask). Its funny.



Just goes to show the unequivocal beliefs of *some* people.

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Bobby

Tuesday 15th January 2008 | 05:23 PM

You all are taking the wrong approach to this barrage of questions Gilly has about science. None of us can adequately prove or disprove her notions of evolution natural selection or mutation to HER liking. When dealing with fundamentalists, it is best to use what they love the most against them (which is true for any fundamentalist religion). Use the fact that fundamentalists consider the bible as the direct word of God and therefore perfect and unchangeable...inerrant for theologians against them. Biblically speaking, women should not get educated (nor should those with the mark of cain...which could be anything). Biblically speaking since there are men speaking on this post (I know for sure I am one of them) women should remain silent and obedient.

And Gilly...reread Leviticus again when you say Christianity does not support violence...all homosexuals should be stoned...you cannot claim that is a non-violent expression...and again...remember God said it, therefore it must be done.

You must also take into account a passage from John (pardon me for not remembering chapter and verse) that states, "in my father's house there are many mansions." Does this mean that heaven is a giant house in the sky that has many (much larger) mansions with it...no Gilly. Reasonably one can "translate" this to mean that there are different places in heaven one can go...couple this with a verse from Matthew where Christ is telling Peter "what you bind on earth, I will bind in heaven. What you loose on earth will be loosed in heaven" and you get the simple belief that a person creates their own heaven based on whatever moral system they have created...taking into account the beatitudes and the golden rule, I would assume that anyone who treats others as his/her brother will surely go to heaven.

Speaking of biblical verses...is the bible is an instrument of perfection here on earth, it is safe to assume that it is perfect. Ah, but this is far from truth. Not only are there many translations of the bible (the worst of which is one that I am sure is sitting quietly wherever you live: The King James Version) that could possibly destroy the meaning/connotation of the passages within (such as THERE IS NO LATIN OR GREEK WORD FOR HOMOSEXUAL...and was simply translated to someone who forces anal sex onto someone else...the sodomite...which is remarkably close to the name of the place God razed to the ground...Sodom. Sodomite would then literally be translated into a denizen of Sodom...NOT A HOMOSEXUAL.

You can also think about the fact that historically...the Bible was composed of many more books. Catholics have a bible that has two more books than KJV...but which one would be true? You would claim that the KJV is true...and possibly denounce Catholicism as a bunch of gnostic demons...but I warn you of that move...I have extensively studied Catholic apologetics...and I am willing to argue the validity of Catholicism against anyone...barring that they leave science at the door (most Catholics believe that God used Evolution as a means of creating humanity...and have no problem assimilating religion and science together).

I want this post to be read by everyone...so I will keep this short. But before you claim that fundamentalism is just...think about all the fundamentalist atheists that have posted comments...if you feel offended by statements that they have made about "your" religion...remember that they can become offended when you denigrate the manner in which they live their life. If fundamentalist Christianity proves to be true when we all pass away, you should be proud that you knew before everyone. GOD WILL JUDGE what is the truth. Until the judgment...please remain quiet...live your life the way you wish, and I will live mine...and I promise to not infringe upon your ability to practice what you believe...so long as you promise not to chastise what me and my boyfriend (yes...I am gay) do...deal?

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Bobby

Tuesday 15th January 2008 | 05:26 PM

and sorry for the gender ambiguity in the last comment...

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lea

Tuesday 15th January 2008 | 05:38 PM

An in my link. listen to the part at the begining about simon says say halla looya, that pretty much explains it all.

DARKSIDED!!!

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honestape

Tuesday 15th January 2008 | 05:41 PM

@Jaquie
To quote from "Lucky Number Slevin," a fantastic movie, "I live on both sides of the fence. My grass is always green."

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Aldo

Tuesday 15th January 2008 | 10:06 PM

http://i121.photobucket.com/albums/o224/your_inquirer/ChurchKills.jpg

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forkicks

Tuesday 15th January 2008 | 11:16 PM

This has got to be the *FUNNIEST* reply thread i've read in ages. Thank you "Gilly" for showing us all your ignorance and retardness. Whoever you are, you just made mine, and a whole lot of others', day.

Every single thing you posted on your first reply was just as absurd coming from you as it was from the KKK guys when they burned black people not so long ago. They had different points, but the almighty (lowcase "A", if he is so almighty, let him change it himself) was always behind them. So no, fundies dont preach peace only, mind you.

The article was great, had all the nice points in it, and touched just the right buttons.

Hell, I'll reverse the "Gilly" points... if there IS a god, please smite me right here and now, with lots of lightning anger and brimstone. I am an atheist and an infidel, please do and prove me wrong.

fK

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Hoggman

Wednesday 16th January 2008 | 11:16 AM

I just wanted to say 2 things. First: I thought it was funny as hell (pun intended) and second: 100th post!

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Stacy P.

Wednesday 16th January 2008 | 02:57 PM

Jake - I'm sorry, but which is a widely accepted fact?

Alton's ""what came first, the chicken or the egg", this is actually an example of evolution; the answer is the farmer. Ever heard of wild chickens grazing in the wilderness? That would be because humans practiced artificial selection and crossed different breeds of birds to produce them. This is the same with most animals produced for food, such as cows."

Or that there were and still are chickens grazing in the wilderness and farmers domesticated the Red Jungle Fowl, (a bird that is essentially a chicken), cross bred it to make specific traits dominant and the result is our current domesticated bird.

I suppose I should have just said yes, I have heard of chickens grazing in the wilderness.

Just out of curiosity - Why the sassy "So there!" ? I think we are on the same side of this chicken issue. But then, perhaps I'm mistaken again.

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Gilly

Wednesday 16th January 2008 | 04:48 PM

Jacquie Jacquie Jacquie
Your article is at best purile uninteresting and simple. You attract nothing more than a Roman mob more suited to the Colluseum 2000 years ago.
The answers to my questions on evolution are only assumptions based on believers faith in science, not hard evidence.
Continue

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Boop

Wednesday 16th January 2008 | 05:16 PM

Gilly,

You said the answers to your questions were "assumptions based on believers faith." Is religion not the same thing?

And the article didn't attract the mob, you did. People were looking for a laugh, but you had to start the argument. If you don't like the article then why don't you turn the other cheek like the New Testament tells you to?

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Beep

Wednesday 16th January 2008 | 05:24 PM

So Christians are understanding? Then why when i worship the devil, I'm criticized? Just because i love the flaming pits in hell rather than the white fluffy clouds of lies and sugarcoated non sense in Heaven?

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Uforea

Friday 18th January 2008 | 01:24 PM

To Gilly.

https://rustylime.com/show_article.php?id=934

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Trevor

Friday 18th January 2008 | 08:17 PM

Creationist: I don't believe in evolution.

Evolutionist: What? Despite all the scientific evidence that supports it, you still don't understand how one organism can evolve into another? But you believe in an invisible wish-granting all-seeing all-judging super-being in space who impregnated an earth woman who then gave birth to a magical man/god hybrid who then died, rose from the dead and flew up to ‘heaven’?

Creationist: Well it’s just that evolution seems so far-fetched!

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Kelsey

Saturday 19th January 2008 | 02:58 PM

i think the biggest problem some people have with evolution is the fact that they refuse to educate themselves about it. evolution refers to more than just the change from ape to human which involves more steps than we currently have evidence of. familiarize yourself with H. heidelbergensis, H. ergaster, H. habilis and perhaps some Australopithecines. Spend some time at the zoo or hell just watching the discovery channel, a few hours of footage of chimpanzees and orangutans and just dare to tell me you don't see any similarities between us. -----------------------------------------
Beyond all of that do some research. We may not be able to see humans evolve, but with things that have much shorter life spans we can. Viruses mutate a.k.a evolve, and become resistant to our drugs. I will even give you a head start.

http://evolution.berkeley.edu/evolibrary/misconceptions_faq.php#b6

go ahead, scroll down to:

Misconception:
"Evolution is not science because it is not observable or testable."


We all know what the bible says, to some extent. So to create some validity for your argument just read some material that is not put forth by the Christian right, who still tells children that men have one less rib than women... because uh, with modern medical science I don't think you can deny the truth in that one.


and i'd like to add my own little "you might"

you might be a fundamentalist jew or muslim if you don't eat pork because "God" said not to.

new rant:
why don't people realize religion is merely a tool to the control the populous. it was dangerous to eat pigs a couple thousand years ago because they can harbor dangerous diseases like-hoof and mouth-so to keep the ignorant and/or the poor from eating pigs and dying they told them "our all powerful lord says he will smite ye if ye consume the flesh of the foul swine."

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Gnat

Tuesday 22nd January 2008 | 09:00 PM

Great post every word of it true!

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John

Thursday 24th January 2008 | 07:43 PM

Um if your talking about radical fundamentalism you shouldn't waste your breathe on Christianity, but rather the most obvious threat to the world and that is ISLAM.

Oh and spare the "religious equivalency" argument. The two religions don't even compare when it comes to radical religious ideology. Just look at Islam's prophet, Mohammed, and his behavior throughout recorded history and compare that to Jesus.

If you put even an ounce of significance into world history you will see that Christianity reformed itself and Islam, today, is still stuck in the 7th Century.


Infidels Are Cool

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James

Saturday 26th January 2008 | 08:10 AM

I would like to commend Gilly for the wise and direct questions--I know that perhaps they are not original, but they are the right questions for such a blog post as this. There have been attempts to answer them, but the responses have been at best begged the question and one of the last questions asked by Gilly is the best, having looked closely at the differences in point of view, does it take more faith to believe in evolution, or in the Bible which has again and again been verified by archeology.
Thanks again, Gilly.
James

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Mikey

Saturday 26th January 2008 | 09:49 AM

Hi James,

Thanks for the contribution. I was interested in your last sentence "the Bible which has again and again been verified by archeology"

Could you provide some examples of this? Perhaps paste some URL's here? Because traditionally it has been the other way around with archaeology. This sin't sarcasm BTW LOL. Just wanted to clarify. I think it would make an interesting topic for a new article.

As for Gilly's last sentence: "Is it wise and fair to present the theory of evolution to students as fact?"

That's actually a good question but the answer I believe depends on what criteria we judge what we educate with. If we were to look at our own planet for example - we teach many aspect about it to our children but few question it (except maybe the Flat Earth Society!). We claim to know it's approximate age, what civilisations existed, and how the dinosaurs became extinct. But it is all based on a combination of collected evidence and theory. A skull was dug up this week with an approximate age of 100,000 years for example, and even allowing a margin or error of 90,000 years (imagine being that inaccurate), how could the Earth only a few thousand years old?

We have to teach our kids one theory or another - and theory based on collected evidence is far more credible that theory based on a book that has been questioned for as long as anyone can remember. But if there is evidence to support the bible, it pales into comparison when compared to evidence in support of evolution. But this means we can't discard either - something I do understand.

That said, and this is something I have mentioned several times on this site, I think children should be exposed to both theories, and let them decide when they are old enough which one they want to believe. That is easier said that done of course, as there are plenty of religious zealot parents out there who don't want their children to have an opinion on the matter - the will only accept and force the God concept onto them. It's a very close minded approach and in some countries now considered a form of child abuse. It's called indoctrination - an ugly word and rightfully so.

Even as an atheist I won't be forcing my lack or belief onto my children. In fact they are already enrolled in Catholic schools because I know they won't get any religious influence from me, which would make me no better than the religious zealots I mentioned earlier.

It's a topic I am passionate about. Hope to hear a response from you.

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DontFeedTrolls

Monday 28th January 2008 | 12:04 PM

Gilly is a troll. Don't feed trolls. Hungry trolls go away.

Arguing with fundies is pointless. They are already convinced they are right, no matter how ludicrous. Just nod, step slowly away, and let them stew in their own misconceived reality.

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Becca

Tuesday 29th January 2008 | 02:00 AM

Very entertaining.
I find that the more educated of a community I'm in (people who have read a variety of religious material from different regions of the world; can appreciate art and anthropology, psychology and philosophy); the less religious people there are, period.

Even in the Bible, Paul refers to philosophy as something Christians should stay away from.
Why is this? To put an end to pondering the possibilities of how governments and people function?
Hm.....
I guess being a political scientist is pretty bad, then.

This is for you, dad. We will always disagree, fundie, but I still love you.

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Evil Roy

Tuesday 29th January 2008 | 01:26 PM

Re: Mikey

I see this attitude from atheists far too often.

Do you plan to let your child decide between phrenology and neurology? Between helio-centric and earth-centric models of the solar system? Between physics and witchcraft?

There is absolutely no doubt among scientists that evolution is a fact, nor among educated adults--one need look no further than the stunning variety of dog breeds to see evolution at work. Natural selection is a theory in slightly less repute, but you would still be about as likely to find a scientist that rejects NS in favor of creationism as you would be to find a geologists who believes that earth-spirits, and not plate tectonics are responsible for continental drift.

The bible--and therefore bible-literalists--are absolutely, 100% WRONG about the origins of life if they choose to reject evolution. Period. I cannot stress this enough; NONE but the ignorant disbelieve in evolution.

If you are going to expose your child to "both sides" of an argument, it should be an argument over which there is still meaningful debate taking place. There is none in this case. Every argument mounted by creationists is invalid. Every one.

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Jake

Tuesday 29th January 2008 | 02:12 PM

Hi Evil Roy,

I see this attitude from closed minded people all the time.

I have a similar pragmatic view to Mike in this regard. While I have no belief in the supernatural, I would like my children to hear every opinon and read every theory than just hear 1.

In my opinion, evolution is the most logical answer to the question of 'how did we get to this point?' but if I were to enforce that theory on my daughter and force her to believe it, refuting all other theories, I am no better than a christian fundamentalist, indoctrinating my child.

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Gilly

Tuesday 29th January 2008 | 04:10 PM

Kelseys rant
new rant:
why don't people realize religion is merely a tool to the control the populous. it was dangerous to eat pigs a couple thousand years ago because they can harbor dangerous diseases like-hoof and mouth-so to keep the ignorant and/or the poor from eating pigs and dying they told them "our all powerful lord says he will smite ye if ye consume the flesh of the foul swine." End
Smite You?? sais God
Funny about eating Pigs though and throwing away cracked pots and sending sick people away from the community. Funny about toilet practices and cleaning rituals that the Jews were forced to do by there smiting God. Funny Kelse how you infer that Jews or God knew about Germs and diseases 4 to 6 thousand years before science was advanced enough to find out about it unaided.Sorry kelse by your own statement you highlight your own foolishness and Ignorance of the Bible
On evoloution,
Yes it is more scientifically logical/ (atheistically) justifiable than creation, but does that make it correct.

Dog breeds prove evolution. They are bred that way. You know the "BREEDS" part.
Pointless for some people

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Mikey

Tuesday 29th January 2008 | 06:52 PM

Hi Evil Roy,

Jake pretty much summed up my position. While I personally agree 'Every argument mounted by creationists is invalid', that doesn't mean I have to force that belief onto anyone - including my children. If I did that I would be not different to a brainwashing, indoctrinating fundamentalist.

As for my kids chose between phrenology and neurology, last time I checked phrenology isn't taught anywhere, and it is only ever mentioned as an ancient laughable example of our past. So I don't there is any danger. Same goes for witchcraft and physics and the solar system examples you mentioned.

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Frodo Muggins

Tuesday 29th January 2008 | 07:48 PM

Evil Roy said..."There is absolutely no doubt among scientists that evolution is a fact, nor among educated adults"

Sorry to be the one to break it to you but there is doubt among many scientists and educated adults. Even Rich Dawkins says he can't disprove god and you won't find a bigger atheist and more decorated scientist than he.

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RedLegionnaire

Thursday 31st January 2008 | 09:30 PM

Gilly, you are the hypocrite. Not a single one of your posts is forgiving or loving. The philosopher known as Jesus Christ would find your ravings quite shameful to his name and his legacy. Have you considered that you might be wrong? Scientists live by the paradigm that their work will someday be improved upon, and that what explanations they create are not absolute, so much as "the best explanation that can be arrived upon based on the evidence available."
Oh and I don't have statistics for Christians, but last year over 1,000,000 Muslims were killed world wide, and if you argue that its all in-fighting between Shiite and Sunni Muslims, I will remind you of the Reformation and the wars between Catholic and Protestant sects.
Despite the incredible annoyance that your [lack of] contributions has caused me, and like minded people, I still wish you no ill. Rather I hope that the the peace of the Enlightened One be upon you; it will only come when you open your mind to sole absolute truth of the universe; there is no absolute truth.

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Jake

Friday 1st February 2008 | 01:38 PM

@ RL

Gilly was defending both his religion and his point of view. He has made it quite clear that he is a christian fundamentalist, and although this particular article was written in jest, he felt compelled to challenge what was written.

RL, are you referring to Lao Tzu, the writer of the Tao Te Ching, or the Buddah?

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Gilly

Friday 1st February 2008 | 03:09 PM

Thanks RL
I know one of my major flaws is in dealing with people like a good Christian. So imagine how good, or Bad I could be if I didnt even try.

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RedLegionnaire

Friday 1st February 2008 | 07:12 PM

To Jake: I was referring to the Buddha, but Lao Tzu was wise as well, though I believe there is no harm in putting forth effort into an endeavor, rather than letting the natural order of things work itself out. And to Gilly: I suppose you could be far more offensive should you release your inhibitions. I realize it must not be easy to be a devout Christian in these times of increasing secularism; I find it important to look inward rather than outward. Too many Christians who seek to save their peers from eternal damnation lose sight of that goal when their peers resist them, instead becoming bitter and elitist. I find more people are turned to Christianity by witnessing Christians acting with charity, compassion, and dignified reverence. Impassioned criticism generally turns them away.
To anyone else, Pope John Paul II issued a statement that there is no conflict between the Catholic Church and evolution, neither specifically discredits the other.

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D

Sunday 3rd February 2008 | 06:38 PM

uhhhhhhhhh, it sounds like the person who wrote this is the intolerant one. Jaquie S, you probably think that your cool just because you mock Christians, but you are just another conforming LIBERAL! take you head out of your ass. you are lucky you can hide behind your computer and write that stuff...

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Stacy

Monday 4th February 2008 | 12:22 AM

Liberal?
I am a conservative, I just haven't let the fundies who have hijacked the Republican party tell me how to vote (or think, or act, or anything).
Yes, it is possible to be conservative and understand that ID is a joke.
Yes, it is possible to be conservative and understand that a vaccine for the HPV virus is smart and to reject it is HUGELY stupid.
Yes, it is possible to be conservative and realize that homosexuality is and has been a reality and is not ever going away no more than pedophile priests will ever go away.
Yes, it is possible to be conservative and realize that when one gets their civics lesson in church they are doomed to never understand true democracy.
Why do you think Huckabee is falling out of contention?
Wake up people, contrary to archaic belief, you are NOT sheep!

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Gilly

Monday 4th February 2008 | 12:57 PM

You are so fortunate you are a preety face Stace,
cos you lack in a lot of other ways (LOL)

"I am a conservative, I just haven't let the fundies who have hijacked the Republican party tell me how to vote (or think, or act, or anything). "

Why not take away there right to vote. Thatll fix them fundies? or Maybe the fundies are conservative and are attracted to conservative party. Nah, thats just stupid isnt it.

"Yes, it is possible to be conservative and understand that ID is a joke."

Laughing at your evolution theory is wrong but?

"Yes, it is possible to be conservative and understand that a vaccine for the HPV virus is smart and to reject it is HUGELY stupid."

Yeah, lets just let people inject us with whatever. Heard of Thalidomide......STUPID???
Lets just wait and prove it is ok first.


"Yes, it is possible to be conservative and realize that homosexuality is and has been a reality and is not ever going away no more than pedophile priests will ever go away.''

What? Homosexuality is real and wont go away, CRIKEY?? Paedophile priests, here is an off the cuff soloution..... ready for it............wait for it.........wait for it... Why not let priests get married?


"Yes, it is possible to be conservative and realize that when one gets their civics lesson in church they are doomed to never understand true democracy."

Where do you get your lessons from then Stace?
True democracy does not exist. Believe it.


"Why do you think Huckabee is falling out of contention?"

Who? Who cares?

"Wake up people, contrary to archaic belief, you are NOT sheep!"
No Stace you are the sheep. You have just chosen to follow a different flock to me, no matter what you say.
Hope you dont lose your looks to soon. Then where will you be?

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Stacy

Monday 4th February 2008 | 01:28 PM

I am a 40 year old caucasian male that weighs 310 pounds. I pretty much abandoned my looks in high school. I see your powers of perception are dialed in.

The moment christians quit voting, the fundies will leave the party. Churches hold voters, nothing more.

Evolutionary theory is not mine laugh, away. Seeing such a bright one as yourself laugh at the Theory of Evolution should be a hoot.

And, I have no flocking flock.

You are nothing if not consistently incorrect.

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Carrie

Monday 4th February 2008 | 02:43 PM

I have to agree with Gilly.. I am NOT Christian or have a definate religion nor am i atheist.. I believe that God made everyone and everything so why should i be ridiculed for not believeing science like others even if it is a joke..Humans are entitled to their own beliefs and just because yours doesn't match up doesn't give you the right to tear it down...this is so jeuvenile!

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Timothy

Monday 4th February 2008 | 02:49 PM

Kyle,

You are a close-minded idiot to post such a comment.

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joe blow

Wednesday 6th February 2008 | 03:19 AM

RE: "Please take your anti religious beliefs back to Nazi Germany and the 1930s"

actually, the nazis were very religious, so is al queda, so are the iranians.

when religion controls the state, things turn ugly fast.

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Judy

Tuesday 12th February 2008 | 11:26 PM

It's astonishing how many people still associate Nazism with anti-religious sentiment, even though they Nazis were as religious as any modern day fundamentalist.

Congratulations on this stirring commentary Jackie.

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Dale

Wednesday 20th February 2008 | 10:38 AM

Gilly, I'm going to answer a couple of the questions you made at the top. I, of course, cannot answer every one of them - In fact, many of them may never be answered. I also do not expect to convince you that evolution is true. However, hopefully I can explain slightly more about it.

"9. Why would any plant or animal want to reproduce more of its kind since this would only make more mouths to feed and decrease the chances of survival? (Does the individual have a drive to survive, or the species? How do you explain this?)"

Wanting to replicate is a result of replication, not the reverse. The advantage of replication comes from the nature of replication itself. If there are two creatures, one of which lives out its life without replicating, and one of which creates several copies of itself (which go out and create more copies), which will there be more of several years later? Thus replication does not need to serve either the individual or the species, but instead just needs to encourage more replication. This is demonstrated with the existence of several species in which one parent dies in the process of reproducing. For example, in some spider species, the female kills and eats the male after mating. This clearly does not benefit the individual, but it doesn't need to, as long is it creates more spiders, which continue the cycle.

"16. There are many thousands of examples of symbiosis that defy an evolutionary explanation. Why must we teach students that evolution is the only explanation for these relationships? "

Why does symbiosis defy evolutionary explanations? If something helps both species, it will become more common.

"26. Do you honestly believe that everything came from nothing? "

Maybe everything was here the entire time? Science may not explain how the universe came into being, but, if the universe is as old as science suggests it is, why should we be able to explain it? Finding out what happened billions of years ago isn't exactly easy, and I wouldn't be surprised if we never discovered the true origin of everything. No scientific theory yet has explained everything perfectly, and given the limited capacity of the human mind, theres no reason to expect that we could explain everything.

"13. When, where, why, and how did
a. Single-celled plants become multi-celled? (Where are the two and three-celled intermediates?)
b. Single-celled animals evolve?"

Single celled creatures evolved through mutations in genetic material. Genetic mutation is certainly not perfect - mistakes or imperfections in cell reproduction are responsible for aging and cancer. With millions (a small estimate) of single cells reproducing at least once a day, usually more, random changes will occur fairly often.
As for a, of course multi-celled organisms did not suddenly come from single celled organisms. I think the belief is that there were groups of single celled organisms long before true multi-celled organisms.

Hopefully people actually read this...

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Gilly

Wednesday 20th February 2008 | 11:48 AM

Dale I personally dont believe in evolution. My argument all along has been that there are still and probably always will be huge gaps. Your answers are at best random guesses, based on assumptions as is all of evolution.
Simple really.

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SW

Friday 22nd February 2008 | 02:33 PM

If God exists, what is It's origins?

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SW

Friday 22nd February 2008 | 02:36 PM

And if you know the answer to the above question, then

-- without the use of faith or scripture --


Prove it.

Or, disprove it.

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Gina Squitieri

Saturday 23rd February 2008 | 05:50 PM

Calm down, children. Let's ALL calm down and try to use our heads.
Oh, what in "hell" am I thinking?! I almost forgot! The Church doesn't want us to use our heads. Go ahead and fight. See if a Christian fundamentalist cares! ha!

But really now, boys and girls...

The fact of the matter is (per the comment that the Christian church has been persecuted-- No! Not nearly as much as people would like us (those of "us" who do know a thing or two about the church and its history) to believe it has. No, no, a thousands times NO! Oh, but would you just LOOK at all the persecuting the church has done? Go ahead! Look. I'll wait.

Did I just hear anyone say "Yeah! Who would Jesus bomb?!" That's right, I knew somebody was listening.

Oh, sure, Jesus would bomb anyone, anyone and everyone -- all in the name of a loving God, Who, on the one hand tells us to love our enemies, but then on the other hand He t-o-r-t-u-r-e-s His own enemies forever (and EVER*) in literal fire, or annihilates them when they refuse to obey Him. Why? Whahhappen? As my Italian father would say. Whahhappen? Did He-a forget-a that He is-a omniscient-a and knows How-a to straighten out a mess-a? (Ha! Ya kill me, pop! You maniac!!)

Who wants to know what the word "omniscient" means? That was sort of a joke with an oxymoronic twist. ha! (Slaps her knee.) Don'tcha just love it!

*(Forever and ever) Why does the bible use the term "for ever and ever"? Now, really think about that for a minute, party people! And, that's about 53 seconds longer than a Christian fundamentalist would spend thinking about how hot the fires in the hell they dreamed up are gonna be. What! It's true!

My computer's built-in dictionary/thesaurus defines "forever" this way.** Now, "scroll down" and read it and then hurry right back and let me see if you were paying attention, because I want to ask you this: If "forever" means a-l-w-a-y-s, and always means "at all times," then to say "forever and ever" would be to say for "always and always." Or, "at all times and all times." Stupid, isn't it. I'm not asking. I'm saying matter of fact: If forever means "always" then that pretty much includes any time and ALL time beyond this very moment.

Check out the KJV bible in "Revelation 22:5
And there shall be no night there; and they need no candle, neither light of the sun; for the Lord God giveth them light: and they shall reign for ever and e-v-e-r. [Emphasis added.]

Have you ever in your life heard any one talking and talking like and like, this and this, and wondered if they weren't on something? Is a Christian Fundamentalist saying their Lord and Savior can't even make sense of His own Word?



**forever |fəˈrevər; fô-|
adverb
1 for a-l-l f-u-t-u-r-e time; for a-l-w-a-y-s : she would love him forever.
• a very long time (used hyperbolically) : it took forever to get a passport.
• used in slogans of support after the name of something or someone : Elvis Forever!
2 c-o-n-t-i-n-u-a-l-l-y : she was forever pushing her hair out of her eyes.

Thesaurus
forever
adverb
1 their love would last forever for a-l-w-a-y-s, evermore, for ever and ever [COMMENT: "Ever" is defined as "always," I kid you not ] , for good, for a-l-l time, until the end of time, until hell freezes over, eternally, forevermore, perpetually, in perpetuity; informal until the cows come home, until kingdom come; archaic for aye.
2 he was forever banging into things always, continually, constantly, perpetually, incessantly, endlessly, persistently, repeatedly, regularly; nonstop, day and night, 'morning, noon, and night'; all the time, the entire time; informal 24-7. antonym never, occasionally. [Emphasis added.]

{Cut & paste the link into your browser.}



HAVE FUN BOYS AND GIRLS. And to the Christian fundamentalists, I say: Be like your Creator--GET CREATIVE and figure out a way to keep from backing Presidents who say they love Jesus, but unlike Jesus kill their enemies. Sham (oops... Freudian slip) shamE on you.

Nighty-night.

Aunt Gina

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Jim- Just a Guy

Saturday 23rd February 2008 | 08:36 PM

I just want to say that there is a profound difference between a Christian Fundamentalist and a plain old simple Christian. Most notably being that as a Christian I don't take offense to anything in this article.
Everyone comes to their beliefs in their own way. Everyone has their reasons for their faith.
Everyone is entitled to have their own faith and a true Christian understands respects this.
Those that scream the loudest and pass judgment on others have missed the point and need to read the book again.
Organized religion is a dangerous thing that preys on the mob mentality. Yes a Christian just said that.
Faith is a choice and can not be be forced.
To quote the movie Dogma it truly is better to have ideas about your faith and spirituality.
Faith is not science, its faith
Faith is not faith until it is all your are holding onto.

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Gina Squitieri

Sunday 24th February 2008 | 02:42 AM

Oh, ya kill me Jim-Jim! ha! You have scripture and verse on all that? Or were you just paraphrasing?

Okay, I'll stop.

The god that atheists reject is the god of Christendom -- of scant, meager success. Oh, yes! That god supposedly has an IQ of 350,000,000 (am I right in saying that?), but He can't figure out a way to solve the problem of sin and death!

For sham. I don't blame them for rejecting that God either.

Gina

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Jim- Just a Guy

Sunday 24th February 2008 | 06:53 AM

Free will, it's a b***h.

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Carrie

Sunday 24th February 2008 | 07:07 AM

Dr. Laura Schlessinger is a radio personality who dispenses advice to people who call in to her radio show. Recently, she said that, as an observant Orthodox Jew, homosexuality is an abomination according to Leviticus 18:22 and cannot be condoned under any circumstance. The following is an open letter to Dr. Laura penned by a east coast resident, which was posted on the Internet. It's funny, as well as informative:

Dear Dr. Laura:

Thank you for doing so much to educate people regarding God's Law. I have learned a great deal from your show, and try to share that knowledge with as many people as I can. When someone tries to defend the homosexual lifestyle, for example, I simply remind them that Leviticus 18:22 clearly states it to be an abomination. End of debate. I do need some advice from you, however, regarding some of the other specific laws and how to follow them:

When I burn a bull on the altar as a sacrifice, I know it creates a pleasing odor for the Lord - Lev.1:9. The problem is my neighbors. They claim the odor is not pleasing to them. Should I smite them?

I would like to sell my daughter into slavery, as sanctioned in Exodus 21:7. In this day and age, what do you think would be a fair price for her?

I know that I am allowed no contact with a woman while she is in her period of menstrual uncleanliness - Lev.15:19- 24. The problem is, how do I tell? I have tried asking, but most women take offense.

Lev. 25:44 states that I may indeed possess slaves, both male and female, provided they are purchased from neighboring nations. A friend of mine claims that this applies to Mexicans, but not Canadians. Can you clarify? Why can't I own Canadians?

I have a neighbor who insists on working on the Sabbath. Exodus 35:2 clearly states he should be put to death. Am I morally obligated to kill him myself?

A friend of mine feels that even though eating shellfish is an abomination - Lev. 11:10, it is a lesser abomination than homosexuality. I don't agree. Can you settle this?

Lev. 21:20 states that I may not approach the altar of God if I have a defect in my sight. I have to admit that I wear reading glasses. Does my vision have to be 20/20, or is there some wiggle room here?

Most of my male friends get their hair trimmed, including the hair around their temples, even though this is expressly forbidden by Lev. 19:27. How should they die?

I know from Lev. 11:6-8 that touching the skin of a dead pig makes me unclean, but may I still play football if I wear gloves?

My uncle has a farm. He violates Lev. 19:19 by planting two different crops in the same field, as does his wife by wearing garments made of two different kinds of thread (cotton/polyester blend). He also tends to curse and blaspheme a lot. Is it really necessary that we go to all the trouble of getting the whole town together to stone them? - Lev.24:10-16. Couldn't we just burn them to death at a private family affair like we do with people who sleep with their in-laws? (Lev. 20:14)

I know you have studied these things extensively, so I am confident you can help. Thank you again for reminding us that God's word is eternal and unchanging.

Your devoted fan,
Jim

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Carrie

Sunday 24th February 2008 | 07:14 AM

I believe in God, I just don't believe in everything that has been stated about him. I believe to love one another, and be a good person, thats about it. I don't believe all stated in the bible, because some of it's ridiculous. I think that if there is a god, he would want us just to get along.

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Carrie

Sunday 24th February 2008 | 07:17 AM

So basically, just ignore Gilly. Shes not worthy of you defying love and causing hatred. She just represents everything thats wrong with the world today.

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Gina Squitieri

Sunday 24th February 2008 | 07:59 AM

Free will is an oxymoronic term.

Anyone thing that is free cannot be willed (manipulated, forced).

Likewise, anyone or thing that can be willed (manipulated, forced) cannot be free.

Everything and everyone operates by cause and effect: First the cause, then the effect. Remember, the word "beCAUSE"? For example, I'm writing this blurb beCAUSE Jim said "free will is a b****h." And Jim wrote his blurb because: ___________________

See how simple it all is? Let's just try one more example:

Most of us are forced to work because we don't have a trust funds we can live off of.

Don'tcha just love it?!

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Kim OJ

Sunday 24th February 2008 | 08:20 PM

@ Gina
Free will might be a little off topic for this thread, but you seem to have misunderstood the term. We are not forced to work just because we do not have a trust fund. Sure it is the method that most people choose, but they do not have to, it IS a choice.
Free Will is not an oxymoron. In fact it is a little redundant. You seem to miss that "Will" is a noun and that "Free" is an adjective applied to that noun. It is not some other thing that is both free and can be willed (here "will" is used as a verb inside a description - very different meaning).

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Jim- Just a Guy

Monday 25th February 2008 | 07:03 AM

Jim wrote his blurb because: Jim made a conscious decision all by himself as a big boy to do so.

I find that Christianity really is the most misunderstood faith and that is because not even Christians can agree on things. There are so many...well for lack of a better word versions. of Christianity. It seems the overwhelming portrayal of Christians in movies is that of catholics. Catholicism has very little to do with Christianity. I am the guy that at some ones wedding I asked the priest why they worshiped idols. That went over real good, almost as bad as my refusal to call him Father because I thought it was blasphemy.

Really the separation only begins there. you have methodist, baptist, Lutheran, Mormon, Jehovah Witness, protestant, Episcopalian, pentecostal and who knows how many other off shoots, some more fanatical than others.

Seriously the term Christian is used very loosely even by those who are involved in the faith. What it really comes down to is that faith is a personal thing and you either have it or you don't.

Arguing about it, making fun of it, going out of your way to disprove it, looking down at others that have it, judging those that don't, damning those that don't, looking down at those that don't shows how far we have to go as a people.

I accept those that do not believe in a God.
I accept those that believe in a different God than me.
The point is to get along and treat each other with love and respect. I will admit to not doing as good a job as I should. When I see people taking shots at each other it is just a sad commentary on the human race and shows how evolved we are not.

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Jim- Just a Guy

Monday 25th February 2008 | 07:04 AM

Oh and free will is not a literal term but an expression that identifies that you have a choice.

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Gina Squitieri

Monday 25th February 2008 | 09:46 AM

Dear Kim and Jim:

People make choices all day long. Computers make choices all day long. Does a computer have free will? Can a computer do anything other than what it was designed to do? I'm waiting............................................

Choices have n-o-t-h-i-n-g to do with free will, Jim. Every choice a computer makes has a cause behind it.

As for me, I make the choice to get up and go to work because if I don't I can't eat and if I want to eat, and I must eat if i want to live -- I choose to work for my food, Kim.

On the other hand, someone else might make the choice to beg on the streets. And, the drugs they chose to take and got hooked on KEEP them back from wanting to CHOOSE other w-i-s-e. Am I going to fast for you?

I'm choosing to end this "dialogue"-- as I know that it's just a little too deep for some people, but I thank you, Kim and Jim, for your responses.

Gina

Gina

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Jim- Just a Guy

Monday 25th February 2008 | 09:52 AM

A computer does not make a choice it runs a program with algorithms based on a design or preset on how to deal with a situation. It was programmed to give certain responses. It makes a choice based on limitations written by the programmer. A person makes a choice based on programming also. Humans are programmed by their experiences. However it is possible for a human to break out their programming. I hope that computers are never able to do this as they would most likely take the science fiction route and determine we are too stupid to live.

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Gina Squitieri

Monday 25th February 2008 | 11:34 AM

Oh, Help, Jesus! Thank you!!

Jim you are such a sweetie--please, don't take anything I'm writing here as personal. I just wanted to make a point (Kim--Do you think you could choose to refrain from commenting? ha! Dontcha love it?)

Jim: You wrote:

"A computer does not make a choice .....". And two sentences later, just two! You said this (Oh, I LOVE THIS!): "It makes a choice ... "


Jim? You didn't actually choose to say that, did you? Jim, I'm screamin! I'm laughing so hard -- on the inside. (Kim? Are you getting angry and wanting to respond? Try to choose not to, okay?)

I love you, Jim! Think you can choose not to respond? I will be you 100 million dollars you're just gonna have to reply because you know what? I gotcha. Yes, yes, Dini got Jim. I love ya, Jim. I do I do.

Okay I'll stop. (Sorry....I wasn't going to continue to dialogue with you, but you left me NO choice, therefore I HAD to respond. I just had to!! YOU FORCED** me to it, Jim. DON'TCHA JUST LOVE IT?!)

Okay. Bring in the hitmen.............. :(


2 Corinthians 12:11 (Amplified Bible)

Amplified Bible (AMP)

11Now I have been [speaking like] a fool! But you forced me to it, for I ought to have been [[a]saved the necessity and] commended by you. For I have not fallen short one bit or proved myself at all inferior to those superlative [false] apostles [of yours], even if I am nothing (a nobody).

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Gina Squitieri

Monday 25th February 2008 | 11:42 AM

Hey, Jim? Ya wanna see a really great site I frequent? Only, you might not like it. Nevermind.

Gina

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Peter

Thursday 6th March 2008 | 03:50 PM

...in response to this comment by Gilly. ad 20. How did thought evolve?

By all respect, the most of your arguments doesn't seem to be under the influnece of thought.

Sorry!

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Christ Ian

Friday 14th March 2008 | 07:05 AM

Your face turns purple when you hear of the atrocities attributed to Allah, but you don't even flinch when hearing about how God/Jehovah slaughtered all the babies of Egypt in Exodus and ordered the elimination of entire ethnic groups in Joshua including women, children and trees!

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Jim-Just a Guy

Tuesday 18th March 2008 | 06:22 AM

...in response to this comment Post from Vicki. I only edited the profanity.

Christians need to stop being afraid of the idea that we came from lower life forms. Read a f***ing Carl Sagan book or something. Quit being so ignorant about the world around you and stop believing in fairy tales. Don't sell yourselves short by not using your brains to think and seek out answers. "God Did It" is the easiest way to puss-out and stop using your brain. Ugh, f***ing fundamentalists.

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Jim-Just a Guy

Tuesday 18th March 2008 | 06:32 AM

...in response to this comment by Jim-Just a Guy. Vicki,
I just wanted to recommend that if you want to change some ones mind it is best not to start by calling them ignorant. Tends to put people on the defensive and they tune you out. A more intelligent well thought out argument may actually have a possibility of being listened to and thought about. I would love to here your theories on what created the universe.

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Gina Squitieri

Tuesday 18th March 2008 | 01:38 PM

Right on, Jim. :-)

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Gina Squitieri

Tuesday 18th March 2008 | 02:07 PM

Hi Vicki,

Jim was very polite about it. Thank you, Jim.

Vicki, I'm with you about seeking answers. Jesus commands it (Luke 11:9). And, then, in Luke 12:2, Jesus assures his disciples that nothing would be hidden or left unrevealed -- not even our the answers to our most sought after questions.

I do not believe the world and the universe came into existence in six literal 24 hour days. That would be a fairy-tale. Paul, in 1 Tim. 4:7, tells it like it is!

But r-e-f-u-s-e and avoid irreverent LEGENDS (profane and impure and godless FICTIONS, mere grandmothers' tales) and silly MYTHS, and express your disapproval of them.

So, this wasn't meant to sound as if I'm trying to force my beliefs on you, but to show you where you and me actually agree, to a certain point.

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Jim-Just a Guy

Tuesday 18th March 2008 | 03:14 PM

Wait a minute Gina and I agree on something. How can it be?

Seriously you are quite welcome. I thought about just straight deleting it with no explanation but felt while I did not agree with the comments they were on topic and they do show both sides of the argument have their wackos.

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Gina Squitieri

Tuesday 18th March 2008 | 09:46 PM

That's so cool, Jim. I love how things work out.

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Kelly

Monday 31st March 2008 | 02:41 PM

I would like Gilly to provide statistical evidence to support her statement that Christians are the most persecuted religion. Quoting some website is not providing evidence. That seems to be part of Gilly's problem to begin with--believing special interests with no basis for what they claim. Give me real proof. Otherwise, I think that the Holocaust trumps a few missionaries getting kidnapped.

There are instances of Christian evangelists being harmed while on missions in Latin America, in the Muslim world, in Africa and elsewhere but I suspect that the harm they faced was the result of them going into someone's country and trying to convert them to Christianity. I've wanted to kick a few door to door fundamentalist asses myself and suspect that if a Muslim came to the deep south and tried to convert Gilly's children to Islam, the Muslim would probably be harmed.

I am always amazed at the hypocracy of the fundamentalist Christians I deal with. I'm appalled at the ignorance of many of them. And I'm angered that they simply can't resist being in my face with their religion. When you live in the South or Salt lake City you see it often. Why don't we allow fundamentalists to pray in schools? Because they can't stop at a simple prayer, won't tolerate some kid who is not interested in praying, and push the envelope until every class and every activity is a de facto prayer session. (I know. I've lived in the Bible belt).

It is not good enough here is Florida that both Federal and state laws ban gay marriage. A fundamentalist is now pressing for an amendment to the Constitution to ban all benefits normally reserved for married couples and all civil conditions such as civil unions. Press that envelope!

My company has a rule that employees may listen to the radio at their desk as long as it doesn't bother nearby workers. We are limited to music stations not talk radio but one employee has demanded the right to listen to conservative talk radio or religious stations. An exception was granted for her with the promise that she keep the volume low but soon Rush Limbaugh could be heard all around the office. Push that envelope.

Gilly, if you want to know why people dislike fundamentalist Christians, ask us. It's not personal. If you stay out of my bedroom, allow me to control my reproduction, don't tell me I can't teach sex ed in schools, stop interfering with the relationship and rights of my gay friends, stay the hell out of the political process in America, quit trying to bring about a theocracy, and generally practice your religion in private the way others do, no one will dislike you. And most important, no one will interfere with you for your beliefs the way you would interfere with a Wiccan for exercising her beliefs or a Muslim or even a Humanist, the latest target of religious talk radio.

And, it would help if you weren't a hypocrite. The employee who listens to Rush Limbaugh at a volume level that forces everyone else to listen to his crap has a bumper sticker saying "What would Jesus do?" I recently commented that something Limbaugh said about Iraq was crap and we got into a discussion where she said that if she was President she would have gone in with sufficient force to kill a couple of hundred thousand civilians as an example to keep the rest of them under control. She would have dropped bombs on residential areas with women and children as punishment "for what they did to us on 9/11" and because "they had WMD". Really?

I think that Jesus would not have done bombed civilians and would expect her to get her facts straight.

One more thing, Gilly. I suspect that management granted my co-worker the special exemption to listen to her talk radio because she recently returned to work from a breast cancer surgery that was extensive. I suspect that management felt that if she is comforted listening to religious radio, then that's a good thing. I think that management didn't realize that "Christian" talk radio is not only religious but political.

My co-worker feels strongly and uncompromisingly that gays get AIDS because God is punishing them. She feels, however, that God is simply challenging her to make her faith stronger by letting her get breast cancer. She says she is not being punished in any way. She feels that abortion is murder but bombing civilians is not as long as they are Muslims. Hmmmm! She insists that "evolution is just a theory: (like gravity?) and that global warming is a myth because "Rush has proven this on his show". She feels that man has no obligation to conserve the earth or our resources "because God gave them to us".

She's going on vacation soon (in her SUV). I hope she doesn't fall off the edge of the Earth.

I believe that there is a possibility that a God created heaven and Earth but if she did, she did so by setting into motion the laws of physics and they in turn triggered such events as evolution which progressed according to the natural laws. She then sat back and did whatever it is that Gods do. She does not interfere in my life nor does she intervene by answering prayers. Therefore, I don't pray. Prayer is fruitless. There is no Hell--nor is there a Heaven. If we return from death, or live on, it is due to quantum physics.

God never takes sides in our trivial political differences and she is the same God that the Muslims pray to. The Bible is a book of ancient myths and if God wants to tell us something important, she will return and assemble us all at a rock concert or football stadium or bar and tell us what she wants. But she probably won't return and she may not even exist and she sure as hell won't tell some fundamentalist televangelist to pass on her will so I too may know the truth. God knows where to find me if she thinks I need to know the truth.

As long as I read and study and learn including science the laws of physics, I'll do just fine. When I become so arrogant that I feel no need to protect the Earth that I live on or the house I live in, I may wake up some morning cold and hungry. My job is not to teach others what to believe. My job is to teach them to think. The rest will fall into place.

Or maybe once upon a time there was thing big bang . . .

Kelly

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Jim - Just A Guy

Monday 31st March 2008 | 02:58 PM

...in response to this comment by Kelly. Kelly unless there has been proof that I missed due to my own ignorance, I am under the impression that evolution is still a theory that has yet to be undeniably proven. If I am incorrect please let me know where I can find some information to read up on that has proven evolution beyond a shadow of a doubt.

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Gina Squitieri

Monday 31st March 2008 | 10:44 PM

Yes, sweet Gilly, if you're listening. Take it from my first office manager from 25 years ago:

"Better to be silent and thought fool, than speak and removal ALL doubt."

Kim, you're a hoot! :D (I mean that nicely.)

Have a good day everybody!

Gina

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Gina Squitieri

Monday 31st March 2008 | 10:49 PM

Oops--I mean, Kelly, you're a hoot. (I'm sorry if I offended any Kims out there. )

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Hacker

Thursday 3rd April 2008 | 06:44 PM

"Religion is regarded by the common people as true the wise people as false and by the rulers as useful" Does any one know the history on this saying or has heard of it before? My father used to teach it to me as he used to physically have religion "bashed" into him.
I am a non believer as my little brain is too analytical but if we were all the same there would be no discussion here :-p

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carly da crocodile

Sunday 6th April 2008 | 08:38 PM

"You think it quite reasonable that a man could horde 2 of every animal on the planet, put them in a boat, and have enough food to keep them alive for 40 days."

and when you consider that 40 days is equivalant to the best part of a trillion years...

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ozearl

Friday 11th April 2008 | 01:12 AM

...in response to this comment by carly da crocodile. Are you saying that it is easier to believe that the complexity of a flower which needs specific insects to pollinate, has colors that have no function other than for us to enjoy? Which came first, the chicken or the egg and why is that so important to our everyday life?
I'm having enough problems with living each day at a time to think that man is the superior being, I need God to be God because Man is not.

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Friday 25th April 2008 | 10:50 AM

...in response to this comment by Gilly. Typical creationist ... even steals from other creationists:
"MY few questions"???

Why can't you even acknowledge that you just copy-pasted them from drdino.com?

How much intellectual prowess do you need to type Ctrl-C, Ctrl-V?

How can you be so utterly unable to think for yourself that you can't even ask a question in your own words?

How pathetic do you have to be to use Dr. Dino Kent Hovind for your questions ... the reigning KING of Creationist frauds!

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Andrew

Friday 25th April 2008 | 11:32 AM

Hahahaha, oh man this string of comments is frickin hilarious.

To all the creationists I will refer you to the immortal words of Bill Hicks:

"Ok, so I meet this creationist and I say, hey can I ask you a question. Its a one word question...Dinosaur? And so then I ask this guy, 'No seriously whats the deal with dinosaurs being left out of the Bible, you know, since it covers all of Earth's 12,000 years of existence? And the guy looks at me and says 'God put fossils here to test our faith'. Test your faith? Does that bother anyone here, that God might be fucking with our heads! Imagine, God running around burying fossils. (in the voice of God) 'We'll see who believes in me now!'"

I mean honestly now, you gotta have some dense ego to believe in tomfoolery like a 12,000 year old Earth. And that kind of stubborn inability to be open to the possibility that you might be wrong actually contridicts the teachings of Jesus - who himself condemned the stubborn tomfoolery of the religious fundamentalists of his time.

So basically Fundamentalist Christians aren't really Christians - they are posers who like to prove people wrong to boost their self-esteem. Which means you are actually idolators if you wanna go the whole nine-yards with this logic. And don't idolaters go to hell in your unforgiving belief system?

And lastly, that whole thing about eternal hell? How do you reconcile that with the teaching of forgiveness as expounded by the founder of your religion? If any Fundamentalist Christian can explain this to me I will forfeit my soul to the deepest layer of hell for all eternity. I will.

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Greyhound1405

Tuesday 29th April 2008 | 04:29 PM

...in response to this comment by Erin. Well done Erin & Jacquie. Isn't it a coincidence that where you are born is where the 'truth' is found. Live in an arab country and Islamic fundamentalist hold the truth. Live in Europe or Bible belt USA and lo and behold Christianity holds the truth. Monotheistic religions can't ever agree. As they hold 'the truth' they will kill and indeed have done over the centuries to defend their version of the Truth. Judaism, Christianity and Islam you can keep your cruel God(s). We have 2000 years of Christianity willions killed of belief in their version of a Myth. We don't need or want your Biblical God of hatred, persecution, division, death and destruction. Feel the venom in some of your readers replies and ask why would I want to be part of that?
PS. Jaquie I have expanded your list and can send you a PDF file suitable for giving to bigoted, pompous, close minded Fundamentalists.

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Julian Ellison

Tuesday 29th April 2008 | 11:47 PM

To follow Christ, all you have to do is get up everyday and do everything based on absolute, unconditional love for others and the world in which we live. This is almost impossible to achieve. Almost none of us can do this, and those tiny few are usually far too humble to call themselves Christian. I've come across Hindus, even atheists who are better Christians than most fellow members of my Christian tribe. And as for evolution -- God really is divine to come up with such a perfect tool for creating our little world of complexity and beauty. God is bigger than the manual.

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Kim OJ

Tuesday 29th April 2008 | 11:57 PM

...in response to this comment by Julian Ellison. Excellent comment. It is worth noting that evolution and God are not mutually exclusive.

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Graham ASH-PORTER

Wednesday 7th May 2008 | 06:41 PM

Jacquie I have expanded your list, put it in PDF format, suitable to hand out to Christian Pamphleteers. I'll read yours after you have read mine tack.

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b

Sunday 11th May 2008 | 01:29 AM

lulz, dont forget, 3 days in a non meat eating whale, surviving stomach acid, oh yah did i mention no air.

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Misha

Monday 14th July 2008 | 10:59 AM

I enjoy this article, but I think I enjoy the comment wars even more. I believe that everyone has the right to believe what they want, and it is a crime to try to push their beliefs on others. Think what you want and state your opinions, but do not attempt to "convert" others to your way of thinking. Believe in what you can identify with, not what your parents have told you, nor a church, nor "Gilly"; trust in the ideas that you and you alone came up with.
Posing scientific questions that you cannot answer, does not enhance your point, Gilly, but more so proves your ignorance about science and lack of faith in others. I'm sure that anyone as passionate about science as you are religion can answer your questions, and if not, then the answers simply stand as a puzzle for humans to uncover in the future.

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Misha

Monday 14th July 2008 | 11:03 AM

I do not mean to stage a personal attack on Gilly due to your already damaged ego after all the previous comments. I am just saying, have some faith in the ideas of others rather than insist that you're ideas are always right. Do not condemn others because they do not believe what you do, but listen to them and consider their opinions.

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Jack

Thursday 31st July 2008 | 12:53 AM

You believe a democrate could not possibility be a Christian.
You believe Bill Clinton is a homosexual because he was involved in oral sex.
You believe woman have no right to be in a position of power especially in Church.

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Friday 5th September 2008 | 11:36 PM

...in response to this comment by Gilly. Gilly...you're a tool. Christians are NOT the most persecuted religion ever...Judaism is. First and foremost get your facts correct. Secondly (fact of history here), the Christian religion has killed more people and civilizations than almost all other religions combined (Crusades)...I could go deeper than that, but, if you're a scholar of any sort, my mentioning the crusades should be enough to shut your trap. And before you try to cleverly retort, all you need to is check your history books for the details.

Your religion is a huge contradiction of itself, and the bible is one of the best sources available to prove my claims. I used to be Christian (18 years), but intelligence and logic finally defeated the brainwashing that I received as I was forced to go to church by my family. Not only did I learn the bible backwards and forwards because of church, but, I also did close analysis of it for college courses and have worked with professors in religious studies. Nearly all of it is B.S. If you knew the history of religion, you would know that it was used as a tool to control mass amounts of people for the sake of security, commerce, and programming. It was (is) quite effective.

And before you spout off bible verses to me...Please know that I'm quite aware of anything that you will say before you say it and will use the bible to show you every inconsistency that you took for truth.

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Papa

Monday 8th September 2008 | 05:26 AM

I am a Bible/Theology major at a Evangelical Pentacostal school.

I know what these people are like, they persecute anyone not like them.

I read the greek, as well as know many professors who have helped me with hebrew translations.

I don't believe the Bible is the sole word of God and I really thank you Jaquie for posting this. Althought humerous, it is very true. All of it actually. I live amongst them in some what of a hidden sense. I have to lie everyday about how I love God/Jesus and how my church hates "homos" just so I won't be chased down and thrown out of the school.

If you would like any help in Bible contradictions and/or Theology contradictions in prodimanent Christian figures, let me know.

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Frikster

Friday 3rd October 2008 | 05:50 AM

Good day all! (or night, whatever the case)

I just thought I could contribute to your lovely and gut-wrenchingly humerous article with a few points I felt were missing. (I know. some of them do repeat)

NOTE: This is NOT anti-Christian. As a matter of fact, I've found these points to be easily and logically refuted by Christians (but not, of course, by FUNDAMENTALIST christians as their prescribed definition negates that possibility...)

TOP 10 SIGNS THAT YOU'RE A FUNDAMENTALIST CHRISTAIN
10 - You vigorously deny the existence of thousands of gods claimed by other religions, but feel outraged when someone denies the existence of yours.

9 - You feel insulted and "dehumanized" when scientists say that people evolved from other life forms, but you have no problem with the Biblical claim that we were created from dirt.

8 - You laugh at polytheists, but you have no problem believing in a Triune God.

7 - Your face turns purple when you hear of the "atrocities" attributed to Allah, but you don't even flinch when hearing about how God/Jehovah slaughtered all the babies of Egypt in "Exodus" and ordered the elimination of entire ethnic groups in "Joshua" including women, children, and trees!

6 - You laugh at Hindu beliefs that deify humans, and Greek claims about gods sleeping with women, but you have no problem believing that the Holy Spirit impregnated Mary, who then gave birth to a man-god who got killed, came back to life and then ascended into the sky.

5 - You are willing to spend your life looking for little loopholes in the scientifically established age of Earth (few billion years), but you find nothing wrong with believing dates recorded by Bronze Age tribesmen sitting in their tents and guessing that Earth is a few generations old.

4 - You believe that the entire population of this planet with the exception of those who share your beliefs -- though excluding those in all rival sects - will spend Eternity in an infinite Hell of Suffering. And yet consider your religion the most "tolerant" and "loving."


3 - While modern science, history, geology, biology, and physics have failed to convince you otherwise, some idiot rolling around on the floor speaking in "tongues" may be all the evidence you need to "prove" Christianity.

2 - You define 0.01% as a "high success rate" when it comes to answered prayers. You consider that to be evidence that prayer works. And you think that the remaining 99.99% FAILURE was simply the will of God.

1 - You actually know a lot less than many atheists and agnostics do about the Bible, Christianity, and church history - but still call yourself a Christian.

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Jake

Friday 3rd October 2008 | 08:30 AM

...in response to this comment by Frikster. That was a beauty Frinkster.

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Tony

Monday 10th November 2008 | 11:43 AM

You might be an atheist if you are:
#1. Crazily Insane with self pursuit of challenging God.
#2. A sinner that has never acknowledged a higher power above itself.
#3. A person who puts their fingers in their ears while a creationist is telling them he truth an pursues speaking over them.
If God wanted us to know all the answers he would have given them to us.
It is inspired by the Holy Ghost (a connection to our spiritual self) in the bible that God chose the foolishness of preaching over intellect.
We accept that God understands why.

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Jake

Monday 10th November 2008 | 12:41 PM

...in response to this comment by Tony. Hi Tony,

Brilliantly said, there are a few flaws though.

1 - I think you mean 'gods' not 'god' as there are simply too many to disprove, afterall, when one civilisation became bored with the dogmatic rules of their god, they made a new one, sometimes more than one.
2 - I think you've lost me here, obviously it is impossible for an atheist to sin as a sin is a circumvention of the doctrine based laws. One would need to be a suscriber to said doctrine in order to commit a sin against it.
3 - Your creationist argument is fundamentally flawed, you have no proof for anything from beginning to end. Also, the fundamentalist defence of "god did it" or "because god is so good" holds neither baring or substance and thus should not be used as a platform for an argument. No creationist argument will ever stand up until you can prove the fundamental flaw, i.e. namely that this mysterious creator you tout is forever absent.

I see that you are of the class of Fundamentalist that are extremely gullible also. The book of bible, that of the christians, was written by people, spiritually enlightened people maybe, but people none the less. They were giving their assertions about the nature of the universe some 1700 years before such scientific explanation was possible and is thus flawed.

Choose to belive whatever you want Tony, but unless you can prove what you tout, don't bother, you're just metaphorically trying to sell dirty ice, express shipped from the antarctic to people who can make ice in their fridge.

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Graham ASH-PORTER

Saturday 22nd November 2008 | 06:32 PM

Hi, I've expanded your list (I priont irton 2 sides of a sheet of paper and give it back to fundy's who leaflet me in the street).
YOU MIGHT BE A FUNDAMENTALIST IF...
You complain when Christians aren't allowed to practice their religion in other countries. Yet you go berserk, for example, when someone tries to set up a Mosque in your neighbourhood, complaining about the Moslem call to prayer from minarets. Yet we all have to tolerate your Church Bells, Christmas Carol singing in the streets. Also door to door and on-street proselytizing, trying to convert already happy people from their current religion, or the even happier non-religious and atheists to join your Church. We don’t need your self-opinionated, patronising, religious education on myths, or want to catch your diseased, archaic delusions. Why can’t you leave us all alone and mind your own business? We are happy enough without listening to your drivel, your fear and guilt mongering and downright lies!
Your face turns purple when you hear of the "atrocities" attributed to Allah. But you don't even flinch when hearing about how your ‘loving’ God, Jehovah slaughtered all the babies of Egypt in Exodus and ordered the elimination of entire ethnic groups in Joshua including women, children, and trees! The Old Testament is liberally littered with such ‘(UN) Godly’ barbarism. You can keep all your cruel God(s), Judaism, Christianity and Islam.
You call Jesus Christ the ‘Prince of Peace’, ignoring where He commands people to take up arms. Luke 22:36-37
You don’t object when current Political or Religious leaders say ‘God told them’ to wage war against Muslim Nations. Sounds just like the ‘holy Wars’ of the past. They too were about taking people, land and possessions, under the pretext of converting the ignorant infidel. It’s about oil this time. At least your Christian Slavery is mostly outlawed now, except for you, a paying slave to your Church! Nowadays people who say that ‘God told them’ to commit a murder or other heinous crime, are usually locked up in an insane asylum for their own protection and the public’s safety too. Why then should today’s Religious or Political Leaders be exempted and treated any differently?
You call your Bible ‘Holy’ yet it contains filth, sexism, oppression, slavery, mayhem, murder, wars and division of peoples. What’s holy about that? This negative immoral message far out-weighs the so called ‘Good News’.
You believe that Religion in general and Christianity in particular, is the only way for people to behave morally. Kept under control by an all-seeing, vengeful God. 2,000 years of Christianity and the world is still cruel & selfish! Study your Bible and see why. Also, most atheists are moral without the need for a God. The Golden Rule of, behaving to others as we would like to be treated by them, predates both Judaism and Christianity by thousands of years.
You vigorously deny the existence of thousands of gods claimed by religions of others, but feel outraged when someone denies the existence of your Christian God(s). Whether they be Atheist or of another ‘Faith’ or Religion.
You laugh at Hindu beliefs that deify humans and animals, and Greek claims about gods sleeping with women. But you have no problem believing that the Holy Spirit impregnated (read - raped a married woman) a ‘virgin’ - Mary, who then gave birth to a man-god, who got killed, came back to life and then ascended into the sky. Which are actually all ideas copied from other, even older, religions (maybe to gain some credibility from them)! Your Christian holy days have mostly borrowed pagan dates and even make use of some of their pagan festivals and ceremonies!
You laugh at polytheistic (many Gods) religions, but you have no problem believing in a Triune God (Father, Son and Holy Spirit [Ghost]). The first verse of Hebrew Bible says GODS (Elohim) created heaven and Earth.
You consider a single prayer that was 'answered' during your life time as a high success rate. You consider that to be evidence that prayer works. And you think that the remaining 99.99% failure rate of unanswered prayers was simply the will of God. Mathematical Probability would provide the same odds and success/failure rate!
You constantly challenge the work of respected scientists who established the age of the Earth as millions if not billions of years old through sound scientific, replicable practices, but have no problem believing the word of ancient Bronze Age Jewish tribesman and later clever, curious clerics, who think it's only numerous Biblical generations old. The 7 day creation of Genesis, then the fictional Adam, Moses through to Jesus, plus the 2,000 years since Christ.
You feel insulted and "dehumanized" when scientists say that people evolved from other life forms out of necessity for survival, but you have no problem with the Biblical claim that humans were created straight from dirt.
You believe followers of every other (or even no) religion will spend an eternity in a Hell of suffering for not accepting Jesus, but still consider your religion the most just, tolerant, loving and understanding.
You believe you must be born again, because of the sins of Adam & Eve. Too crazy & immoral to merit response.
You believe ancient, old debunked myths, like the Devil and Witchcraft are still relevant today and will therefore avoid Harry Potter movies amongst other things, just to be safe. The Devil is in the mind of those who dwell on it, YOU!
You feel that while modern science, history, geology, biology, and physics have failed to convince you otherwise, some idiot rolling around on the floor speaking in "tongues" may be all the evidence you need to "prove" Christianity.
You think it quite reasonable that a man (Noah) could horde 2 or 7 of every animal on the planet, put them all in a boat, and have enough food to keep them alive for 40 days, Let alone cleaning the muck out.
You are arrogant and vain enough to think the Earth and its (human) inhabitants are the centre of and the only (human) life in the entire universe, despite it being statistically impossible. God is only interested in you.
You dismiss the scientifically proven explanation of any event because you don't understand it, or it conflicts with Biblical myths, but are happy to just say "God did it" without any tangible proof.
You think AIDS is Gods punishment for homosexuality, which you see as a reversible choice instead of genetic.
You think earthquakes, floods and other of nature’s catastrophes are God’s punishing a disobedient people.
You think a warm fluffy feeling is proof of God. The self-same feeling one can get from Love, friends, beautiful music, art and Natures scenes. Of course you believe Nature is God’s handiwork, so round we go in circles again.
You deplore homosexuality, but will vigorously defend your own Pastor if and when he is caught playing with choirboys. Or he will be quietly moved on to another Parish (In the hopes he will reform)!?
You know less than your atheist and agnostic friends do about the Bible, Christianity, and the history of your Churches - but still call yourself a Christian. If you are ever allowed to read the whole Bible with an intelligent, rational, critical eye, you will be in for a lot of shocks. Your Pastor will not be able to explain the violence and inconsistencies!
You and your Church think anyone with an enquiring, rational, open mind has been influenced by your Devil.
Your church is one of thousands of denominations or sects. If Christianities message is so pure and simple, why so many variable beliefs and Bibles within Christianity? So which Church and which of many Bibles holds the ‘Truth’?
You think your Church is the only one practicing ‘true’ Christianity, whilst all the others are headed for hell. Protestants hate Catholics, Baptists hate Presbyterians, and Jehovah’s Witnesses hate you all. And that is before you begin hating other religions - the ‘deluded Muslims’, Buddhists, Hindus, Taoists etc. Not to mention the Atheists!
Your Preacher encourages you not to rationalise, think or doubt, but accept everything he or the Bible says as being true. That’s called keeping you in ignorance. We would still be living in the dark ages if we had all done that. Along with the inquisition, its theft of property and its torture and murder at the stake for the millions who dared to question the priesthood. Both Roman Catholic and the Protestant Churches are equally guilty of such base cruelty.
You share common points of view with the same types of people who thought the Earth was flat and the centre of the Universe. It took science to prove otherwise, but you must still accept the myths and fairy stories with faith, or incur the wrath of your Church and/or your enraged, jealous, possessive, merciless (Loving!?) God, Jehovah.
You find it difficult or even impossible to accept ways of science and its conclusions only because they conflict with the Bible. A Bible full of errors and contradictions, whichever of the many ‘Holey’ Bibles you choose to pick up?
You believe that the Bible is the word of God or at least inspired by Him, incapable of error. It is a motley collection from different writers, written after the event, recopied over the centuries, with mistakes. Purposely doctored to fit current beliefs of the day, bits or whole books left out, bits or whole books put in. Yet even now you claim the Bible is still inerrant!? I sincerely hope it does contain mistakes, because I couldn’t worship such a God as Jehovah as he is portrayed in your ‘Holy’ Bible. Who incidentally is every bit as evil (if not more so) as your ‘so called’ Devil.

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Samantha

Thursday 18th December 2008 | 06:28 PM

I thank gods I'm a Pagan...

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davee

Friday 23rd January 2009 | 11:05 PM

Gilli,

"Please take your anti religious beliefs back to Nazi Germany and the 1930s "

For the record, the Nazis were Christians, in fact Hitler himself was a Catholic. read that however you like

I am convinced that I am acting as the agent of our Creator. By fighting off the Jews, I am doing the Lord's work.
~ Adolf Hitler

Secular schools can never be tolerated because such schools have no religious instruction, and a general moral instruction without a religious foundation is built on air; consequently, all character training and religion must be derived from faith ... we need believing people.
~ Adolf Hitler



"My feelings as a Christian points me to my Lord and Savior as a fighter. It points me to the man who once in loneliness, surrounded by a few followers, recognized these Jews for what they were and summoned men to fight against them and who, God's truth! was greatest not as a sufferer but as a fighter. In boundless love as a Christian and as a man I read through the passage which tells us how the Lord at last rose in His might and seized the scourge to drive out of the Temple the brood of vipers and adders. How terrific was His fight for the world against the Jewish poison. To-day, after two thousand years, with deepest emotion I recognize more profoundly than ever before the fact that it was for this that He had to shed His blood upon the Cross. As a Christian I have no duty to allow myself to be cheated, but I have the duty to be a fighter for truth and justice... And if there is anything which could demonstrate that we are acting rightly it is the distress that daily grows. For as a Christian I have also a duty to my own people.

-Adolf Hitler, in a speech on 12 April 1922 (Norman H. Baynes, ed. The Speeches of Adolf Hitler, April 1922-August 1939, Vol. 1 of 2, pp. 19-20, Oxford University Press, 1942)

nuf said.

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Michael

Saturday 24th January 2009 | 03:32 AM

Gilly, you frighten me. The fact that someone such as yourself even still exists casts doubts upon the chances of human survival. ::shudder::

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Leroy

Thursday 19th March 2009 | 11:26 PM

...in response to this comment by Gilly. Gilly when I read your idiotic comments I feel like my IQ dropped 50 points for every second I was exposed to your writing. I do believe at this point I am slowly petrifying as well as gagging profusely because of how retarded you sound. Could it be that you're just jealous that you aren't smart enough to understand science? Something comes to mind when I encounter people like you, "Science too hard? Try religion!"

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StrangeMagic

Thursday 6th August 2009 | 01:45 AM

Aw man....I'm to late to join in the mosh pit. Anything else like this crop up much?

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referer

Thursday 6th August 2009 | 03:31 AM

...in response to this comment by StrangeMagic. Check out the religion tag and you will plenty of this kind.

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Koyaanisqatsi

Thursday 25th February 2010 | 11:08 AM

...in response to this comment by Gilly. hehe, thanks for posting this, Gilly. I still use it often for a good laugh.

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Mary

Friday 2nd April 2010 | 05:57 AM

...in response to this comment by Yoda. They could mean that they are agnostic too? That's kind of neutral and that's what I consider myself, Agnostic.

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Robert

Tuesday 27th April 2010 | 11:22 PM

...in response to this comment by Gilly. I am a Christian and as such, would be much more concerned with my relationship with Christ than being "right" in an offensive way on a message board. When I read the Gospels, I don't see Jesus throwing out a slew of questions in an attempt to confuse or humiliate the Pharisees. Instead, it was them who did so to Jesus. I have a feeling you fundamentalists are very much the same type the Bible has warned us of. I by no means suggest that you give up your faith, or your way of practicing it, but do remember that God gave us a brain to use and a logical thought process, so they therefor must be good. Christian maturity seems to demand logic go hand in hand with faith. May God bless you on your journey to a more mature faith.

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Gina

Wednesday 28th April 2010 | 12:02 PM

Dear Robert:

I don't want to humiliate you in any way, but please read the following:

2 Timothy 2:15
S-T-U-D-Y and be eager and do your utmost to present yourself to God approved (tested by trial), a workman who has no cause to be ashamed, CORRECTLY ANALYZING and ACCURATELY DIVIDING [rightly handling and skillfully teaching] the Word of Truth.

You said that when you read the Gospels you never saw Jesus humiliating or confusing the Pharisees. Let's read it again:

Matthew 23

13But WOE unto YOU, SCRIBES and PHARISEES, H-Y-P-O-C-R-I-T-E-S! for YE shut up the kingdom of heaven against men: for YE neither go in yourselves, neither suffer ye them that are entering to go in.

14WOE unto YOU, SCRIBES and PHARISEES, H-Y-P-O-C-R-I-T-E-S! for YE DEVOUR widows' houses, and for a PRETENCE make long prayer: therefore YE shall receive the greater damnation.

15WOE unto YOU, SCRIBES and PHARISEES, H-Y-P-O-C-R-I-T-E-S! for ye compass sea and land to make one proselyte, and when he is made, ye make him TWOFOLD MORE the CHILD OF HELL THAN YOURSELVES.

16WOE unto YOU, YE BLIND GUIDES, which say, Whosoever shall swear by the temple, it is nothing; but whosoever shall swear by the gold of the temple, he is a debtor!

17YE FOOLS and BLIND: for whether is greater, the gold, or the temple that sanctifieth the gold?
[THIS IS CLEARLY A QUESTION.]

18And, Whosoever shall swear by the altar, it is nothing; but whosoever sweareth by the gift that is upon it, he is guilty.

19YE FOOLS and BLIND: for whether is greater, the gift, or the altar that sanctifieth the gift?
[THIS ALSO IS CLEARLY A QUESTION.]

20Whoso therefore shall swear by the altar, sweareth by it, and by all things thereon.

21And whoso shall swear by the temple, sweareth by it, and by him that dwelleth therein.

22And he that shall swear by heaven, sweareth by the throne of God, and by him that sitteth thereon.

23WOE unto YOU, SCRIBES and PHARISEES, H-Y-P-O-C-R-I-T-E-S! for ye pay tithe of mint and anise and cummin, and have omitted the weightier matters of the law, judgment, mercy, and faith: these ought ye to have done, and not to leave the other undone.

24YE BLIND guides, which strain at [out] a gnat, and swallow a CAMEL.

25WOE unto YOU, SCRIBES and PHARISEES, HYPOCRITES! for ye make clean the outside of the cup and of the platter, but within they are full of extortion and excess.

26THOU BLIND PHARISEE, cleanse first that which is within the cup and platter, that the outside of them may be clean also.

27WOE unto YOU, SCRIBES and PHARISEE, HYPOCRITES! for YE are like unto WHITED SEPULCHRES, [white-washed TOMBS] which indeed APPEAR beautiful outward, but are within full of DEAD MEN'S BONES, and of ALL UNCLEANNESS [UTTERLY F-I-L-T-H-Y!].

28Even so YE also outwardly APPEAR righteous unto men, but within ye are FULL of HYPOCRISY AND INIQUITY.

29WOE unto YOU, SCRIBES AND PHARISEES, H-Y-P-O-C-R-I-T-E-S! because ye build the tombs of the prophets, and garnish the sepulchres of the righteous,

30And say, If we had been in the days of our fathers, we would not have been partakers with them in the blood of the prophets.

31Wherefore ye be witnesses unto yourselves, that ye are the children of them which killed the prophets.

32Fill YE up then the measure of YOUR fathers [FATHERS WHICH KILLED THE PROPHETS].

33YE SERPENTS, YE generation of VIPERS, how can ye escape the damnation of hell?

34Wherefore, behold, I send unto you prophets, and wise men, and scribes: and some of them ye shall kill and crucify; and some of them shall ye scourge in your synagogues, and persecute them from city to city:

35That upon you may come all the righteous blood shed upon the earth, from the blood of righteous Abel unto the blood of Zacharias son of Barachias, whom ye slew between the temple and the altar.

36Verily I say unto you, All these things shall come upon this generation.

37O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, thou that killest the prophets, and stonest them which are sent unto thee, how often would I have gathered thy children together, even as a hen gathereth her chickens under her wings, and ye would not!

38Behold, YOUR HOUSE is LEFT UNTO Y-O-U DESOLATE.

39For I say unto you, Ye shall not see me henceforth, till ye shall say, Blessed is he that cometh in the name of the Lord.

John 12:40
He [JESUS] has blinded their eyes and hardened and benumbed their [callous, degenerated] hearts [He has made their minds DULL], to KEEP THEM FROM S-E-E-I-N-G with their eyes and understanding with their hearts and minds and repenting and turning to Me to heal them.

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Fred Flintstone

Monday 14th June 2010 | 01:31 PM

...in response to this comment by Gilly. I can answer all those questions, Gilly. God did it. There - are you happy? So don't worry your silly little empty head about it any more and go off and watch Idol, OK girly?

Funny how you demand lengthy answers when the only answer you can ever offer is "god did it"? Hahaha what a moron you are.

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deeeerderderp

Monday 6th December 2010 | 09:40 AM

...in response to this comment by Gilly. You clearly copied and pasted that from a site that's probably dedicated to 'gettin' those EVUL SCIENTUSTS' by making them answer your ridiculously circular questions.

Why don't you get some research done yourself- or does your god prevent you from doing that as well?

Go lust after genitals of donkeys or something.

Henk V

Henk V

Monday 6th December 2010 | 03:55 PM
7 total kudos

I must admit, Gina and Gilly do like the cut and paste and the cut and run..


Gilly is on leave until he thinks his questions to him are forgotten. They aren't. I have them in word.

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Hey Dumbo

Thursday 9th December 2010 | 06:58 PM

Funny how nobody here answered my questions yet I am supposed to answer your nonsensical doodles
Listen Dumbo I dont have any answers.
D o y o u w a n t m e t o t y p e s l o w e r s o y o u c a n k e e p u p ?

Henk V

Henk V

Friday 10th December 2010 | 02:32 PM
7 total kudos

"Listen Dumbo I dont have any answers"... why do you talk to yourself like that?

Goldilocks questions

Why isnt jesus very good at all? Which biblical character of note emphasises this?
Why is jesus called messiah?
What ark animal did Ham eat?


How many buffalo did buffalo bill kill?

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HerexForxYourxEntertainment

HerexForxYourxEntertainment

Friday 20th May 2011 | 09:25 AM
No total kudos

You guys, this has gotten way out of hand. We can each have our own interpretations of the information we are given. Just look at the Bible...it has been interpreted in so many different ways.
Has anyone ever considered that maybe science is the one complete, uninterpreted version of God's word?

Oh and technically, you could rearrange English letters and get a Chinese book...with English Characters...not uncommon

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Mud

Friday 20th May 2011 | 10:04 AM

Recycling could do it...

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OpenMinded

Tuesday 24th May 2011 | 09:49 PM

...in response to this comment by Gilly. You just proved her right I hope you know. It's a theme of hypocricy and ignorance she was getting at, and you failed with flying colors. You're response was also self-righteous, but you wouldn't see that because you're so adamant about being right and not sincerely interested in another's opinion. Instead of getting angry at someone else for not sharing your beliefs (aside from the fact that Christians should guide not discourage or speak to someone with such impudence) maybe it would be more beneficial to provide them "your proof" or your foundation of beliefs.

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Mud

Wednesday 25th May 2011 | 12:14 AM

Recycling could do it......

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Mud

Wednesday 25th May 2011 | 12:53 AM

I dont really care if the deity is a fish. The deity doesn't exist in any other lane than literature and woo artists.

If you want your science mixed with woo, there is, Oprah, Dr Oz, Mercola, McHyde, Maccanney, Hammerhoff etc etc..


If you want reality...enrol in a science course (please, one that does a shit load of math and journal research).

Doctorate in theology = Doctorate in not very imaginative literature. Philosophy 1 and 2 = less able to make pancakes than before the course..Its always the concept...meat pancakes or syrup?

Theology? From what I have seen, a lost way of arguing. Nobody does it good anymore..

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Mud

Wednesday 25th May 2011 | 01:00 AM

and as to Gilly's questions, he recycles them. I dont read them any more. Mostly they can be answered off the tops of the heads of any 20 year old. They are just not questions.


If you answer them or start to answer them, he will just start screaming and start telling you the world is going to end and you will burn for eternity. Sounds good..FLAME ON.


I have no time for cut and pasters..The hair dresser is offensive and racist.

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Gary

Wednesday 25th May 2011 | 01:24 PM

Geez Mud, your arts vs science gland is dancing again.

Atheism can't really be described as a position. But anti-education is a position that should be squashed.

As you said, flame on. Somebody here may even wake up to the fact that their keyboard is attached to a machine that defies creationism.

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John

Tuesday 23rd August 2011 | 04:23 AM

...in response to this comment by Gilly. and becasue you are a fundamentalist Christian - does your argument negate all the other religions on the planet - whose God did the creating?

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Fielding

Saturday 27th August 2011 | 09:31 PM

...in response to this comment by Gilly. So you think asking, "Where does 'space' come from?" is a logical rebuttal to science?

But you think asking, "Where does 'God' come from?" is a silly question?

Not that a scientist would make either of these statements but they are both equally valid (or invalid):

Space just is - always has been, and always will be.

God just is - always has been, and always will be.

But of course, only the second one "makes sense," right?

Stupidity just is - always has been, and always will be.




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Muddie

Monday 29th August 2011 | 08:30 AM

Fielding, space cant be explained to folk unless they spend a bit of time doing math and physics.

God is explicable to any dunce and if there is a question that arises about god, it can be harmonised by any dunce or, the properties of god become personalised.


God as the new age supernatural being is a pure invent of recent times to harmonise the failures of monotheism and eastern religions. Given that all major religions are ultimately eastern, it appears that harmonisation and re-establishment has been going on for a very long time. All explicable to the dunces of this world.

I invite you to witness the claptrap espoused by Tyler in the archives. I am sure he knows what he believes but has stated on "imaginary Friends" that he has harmonised his original deism/supernaturalism/ theosophy? to a new form of christianity.

His own.

I'd like to have my own space, but I cant harmonise my philosophical zeal with standard measurement.

You can have your own faith. You can't have your own physics.

Going up guys!

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Jaquie S 12th January 2008 by Jaquie S

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