Does Atheism Lead To Anti-Semitism?
Jake Farr-Wharton 87 comments
Those who hold a penchant for, or at least interest in, the story comprising the rise and fall of Christianity will always have a few favourite characters that they identify as the personification of a True Christian. The problem exists, however, that it is often impossible to look at these characters objectively, because they were often an integral part of the formation of the modern day incarnation of the religion they identify with.
These characters were often people who triumphed over great adversity, remaining strong (at least reputedly) in their faith as they battled various evils. They are then, often, championed by priests and pastors as a hero – “if he/she can go through such tremendous adversity and remain true to their faith and their god, then why would we lose our faith when our issues are trivial in comparison?”
The Protestant reformation owes its existence to such a character. As a priest, Martin Luther was a man willing to stand up against what he saw as the evils of the Catholic Church, at great personal cost.
Disgusted by the sale of indulgences (pre-paid absolution for committing specific sins which the Catholic Church sold to fund extensions to the Vatican), he nailed 95 theses to the front door of his Catholic Church in protest. His belief, and what he preached, was that salvation was not earned through good deeds, but through faith and belief in Jesus Christ.
He also translated the bible into common language, allowing the common person to have access to the same literature as the revered priestly class. For his beliefs and actions, which ultimately led to the reformation and Protestantism, he was ex-communicated, his writings were banned and he was condemned as an outlaw. This made it a crime for anyone in Germany to give Luther food or shelter and permitted his murder without legal consequence.
And yet, throughout the turmult, he remained faithful. A model Christian, indeed.
Martin Luther, however, whether reflecting the sentiment at the time (and past, and future, and indeed present-day) or simply by nature of his devotion to scripture, was also hideously anti-Simetic. More specifically, he asumed that the Jews would convert to his new form of Christianity and was quite irreverant towards them for a time. When, however, they did not convert, he turned rather violently against them.
A man who is revered for both his devotion and the integral part he played in today’s version of Christianity held, arguably, the most violent and hateful views towards Jews.
I speak of his publication entitled, The Jews and Their Lies (c.1543). In the paper he, in splendidly morally repugnant detail, why the Jews should be exterminated and how to go about such a task:
First, that their synagogues be burned down, and that all who are able toss in sulphur and pitch; it would be good if someone could also throw in some hellfire. Second, that all their books their prayer books, their Talmudic writings, also the entire Bible, be taken from them, not leaving them one leaf, and that these be preserved for those who may be converted.
Third, that they are forbidden on pain of death to praise God, to give thanks, to pray, and to teach publicly among us and in our country. (For such praise should only be given to Jesus). Fourth, that they be forbidden to utter the name of God within our hearing. We must drive them out like mad dogs, so that we do not become partakers of their abominable blasphemy and all their other vices and thus merit God's wrath and be damned with them.
While this type of anti-Semitism was not uncommon during the time, one can see obvious parallels between the writings of the father of present-day Christianity and other despots from recent history, namely one Adolf Hitler.
Thus, it is important to remember, to ensure that we never forget, that behind the reputedly peaceful and loving ideology of Christianity, lays a foundation of blood, torture, violence and supremacy.
Resources:
http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/anti-semitism/Luther_on_Jews.html
http://www.awitness.org/books/luther/luther_jews/17_treat_jews_reprise.html
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Martin_Luther
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Protestant_Reformation
Mari
Wednesday 2nd February 2011 | 11:23 AMI dont think all atheists hate jews. At least it seems far less visible than with christians and some muslims. It seems to me that antisemitism is tied up with the lack of ability to think critically. People who believe such nonsence such as a jewish world domination, or any other vile conspiracytheories, arent always idiots, but I believe more motivated by hatred, or little ability to take things into consideration.
YouTube, I think is a perfect example of this form of lunacy, going from Holocaust denial to fucking race - theories.
Yes, I believe there are atheists who believes such nonsence, but of course, not all atheists are equally reflected.
I believe some form of antisemitism is tied up with anti- zionism, and that some people draw this conclusion that jews and Israel are two parts of the same coin.
I think both sides in the conflict has its failures. I dont like Israels constant millitary occupation of the West Bank, but neither do I like the rhetoric comming from groups like Hamas. But Im not going to generalize about all jews or muslims, for the actions of some people. It seems that there is this kind of tendency around, all the time, that people generalize about either jews or muslims as bad villains, that we should fear.
Wednesday 2nd February 2011 | 11:28 AM
Rodney, I was going to reply, but it ended up being too long, so I've written another article to follow it up.
Gilly
Wednesday 2nd February 2011 | 07:25 PM...in response to this comment by Rodney. What a sook
If you were Aboriginal you would sook
If you were Christian (especially around here) you would sook
If you were Asian
If you were a Wog a Pohm a Poof
Rod are you Jewish are you a descendant of the tribe of Judah?
or just a sook with a complex, toughen up princess
Jake espouses everything you claim Judaism suffers through yet aims his hate and vitriol at Christianity and you are so self absorbed Rod you cant recognise it
Jake you pompous self righteous naive fool
The Bible, the Christian rule book.
It states that Christians should bless Gods chosen people not curse them.
Genesis (12:3), God "will bless those who bless the Jews and curse whoever curses the Jews."
as a sideline, Ol Mr K rudd cursed the Jews recently
any way Rod
http://thefinalhour.blogspot.com/2009/02/christianity-most-persecuted-religion.html
I expect persecution as a Christian
I look forward to it
Gong
Wednesday 2nd February 2011 | 09:54 PMall you fools just need to realise that our existence in this universe means absolutely nothing at all
nothing
Jake Farr-Wharton
Thursday 3rd February 2011 | 03:47 PM...in response to this comment by Gilly. Gilly, the Christians who are 'persecuted' are the Muslim apostates in Pakistan, Afghanistan and Iran etc, who convert to Christianity in order to seek asylum in a secular country (which is often sponsored by US churches).
Your every day Christian's persecution is analogous to the popular kid stubbing his toe in public and all of his friends laugh, but then 10 minutes later they're back to beating up nerds together...
Jews, on the other hand (and I am not an apologist for Judaism, I dislike all religion equally) Jews have been systematically exterminated several times by Christians and the Christian Nazi regime, because they were different.
Gilly, this great rule book of yours, the bible also says, "Happy is the one who seizes your infants and dashes them against the rocks." Psalm 137:9.
In a perfect world, Gilly, there would be an education system that would not have completely let you down.
Gilly
Thursday 3rd February 2011 | 07:09 PMContext Jake context
The Jews had been destroyed by the Babylonians and that is how King David saw Justice served. Yes the Jews are a violent race as they have always been
Did God sanction it? It certainly seems so.
Was it justified? Obviously
If Satan can destroy the Jews then he will destroy the word of God. No prophecy can come true.
No point telling me how violent Jews are I can read the papper. I know Jews probably dashed babys heads on to rocks and it was acceptable, but I often wonder why some races needed to be purged from the Earth. I have a sneaky though
What you say about the Jews and what the Talmud states doesnt change what I said
You are under some strange illusion we believe God is meak and gentle. Sorry for you he isnt. He is mean and nasty and will send your type to hell. Read his book, you are right Jake...
He is mean
I am not a Jew, Rod is the Jew. Christianity for all the times I have explained it to your wax filled ears is not Judaism
I am not Jewish.
Seriously Jake can you comprehend that simple fact. PLEASE, Christians dont abide to Jewish laws, they can if they want but Christ heralded two new Christian doctrines.
Its all right about that education system Jake, where it failed me Christ took up the slack
Christian martyrs only in Muslim countrys? Cmon Jake thats a little naive or maybe just lazy.
What about that "Is your housemate an athiest"
Seems you athiests are a little thinned skinned as well
Maybe Rods not the only big sook around here
Jake Farr-Wharton
Friday 4th February 2011 | 08:39 AM...in response to this comment by Gilly. To the Jews, there is no Satan, Gilly, and considering you find all the proof for satan in your good book, they find all the proof for the non-existence of satan in theirs... well, and they're also able to engage the critical thought centres of their brain enough to consider the distinct lack of physical evidence.
To be sure, it wasn't Jesus that created the new covenant, it was Paul. Jesus was an orthodox Jew, who lived and died an orthodox Jew.
If you've seen the balance sheet of any church in the western world, you'll see that the money changers are perfectly happy to trade within the temple... something which Jesus was obviously quite ferverently against.
You're not a Christian, you're a Pauline Christologist.
gilly
Friday 4th February 2011 | 08:14 PMGee your a pathetic light weight Jake
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sermon_on_the_Mount
Research its called
I could go on but its pearls to pigs
As for what Jews believe you arrogant poser. If it is based on anything like what you believe Christians believe then your opinion is nonsense and baseless and what the Jews believe about Satan is irrelevant to my point anyway
God, the Jewish one, Yahweh is not a cute cuddly fella who looks like santa
He is the God of Judgement. He Kills and destroys. Yes you are right about that
It doesnt matter what the Jews believe about satan, nothing to do with my point at all, yet there was a serpent ion the garden. Maybe Jews ignore it
and Jake I dont really mind what you think of me. I expect it. I wont moan and sook like Rod or like your athiest mates on that other thread
OMG...my girlfriend is Jewish, and boy, is she a spicy meatball. Me, being an Atheist, I am now wondering if I will have to reconsider. I do so enjoy wearing a Yarmulke when I go over to her house. She says it's O.K. for me to wear it. I have found several pretty cool ones at "Yarmulke's Are Us", one with a Peace Sign, another one in camo, and one with a rainbow of concentric rings...I think that one is for Jews that are gay, but I just like the colors.
She's a babe with smooth pale white skin, and very dark hair. She also has a great sense of humor...I keep checking to see if she has a large nose, but it seems pretty normal. Hmmm!!! Don't know what to make of that exactly. Oh well, shes great and I really like her.
f~
Jake Farr-Wharton
Sunday 6th February 2011 | 10:17 AM...in response to this comment by gilly. Irony is the lowest form of Gilly.
Gilly
Sunday 6th February 2011 | 07:48 PMHa Ha ha ha ha huh
Thats just so funny, you are so clever
Henk V.
Sunday 6th February 2011 | 09:55 PMPlease Gilly, if you don't believe in Yahweh, how come you are a creationist?
add that to the billion or so questions creationists cant answer.
PS, anti Semitic is a poor term. All Arabs and Jews are Semitic. Sons of Shem if you are religious.. carriers of certain genes if you are literate.
Gilly would be a Semite then?
Back to the article... Its a little bit grandiose on Luther, he was just a product of his time. Whilst some folk were doing real work, Luther was a religionist. I am sorry to announce that anti Jewish sentiment can easily be gleaned from the separation within the NT. Thats @ 1300 years years of festering superstition thanks to what we gobble up as pauline literature.
This of course doesn't mean that the sanest state in the middle east is populated by sane politicians. No, they use religion. Be they damned.
Now as to satan, yer both wrong, satan appears as ha-satan quite frequently (even in the NT). Its only in the revelation of John the yeeros eater where "satan" is "evil".
Everywhere else, satan is doing his job as yahweh's prosecuting attorney. Ask Jesus..as a matter of fact, the most poorly quoted line from the rag collection is "get the behind me satan". It literally means.."Simon Peter, who the fuck are you to give me advice?..I am Jesus!"
PS anyone care to name the god who whipped Yahwehs arse in battle? Yep, even Jesus forgot to mention that bit to the tiny band of merry men in Sherwood desert.
Both testaments have many gods. History has deluded fools like Luther who sponge off the churches back for a further decade after criticising it. Karl 5 was a magnanimous Holy Roman emperor.
As I've said before... think about it.
pps, how is that creationist computer going? The soft ware is fucked.. but then, algorithms are never perfect until put into practice.
Henk V
Sunday 6th February 2011 | 10:01 PMPS... CNN Fox etc etc etc..
Egypt is in north africa.. the middle east is in asia
Satan rises most mornings before the sun.. called halal, lucifer, venus etc etc.
Maybe somebody just got the hint about purity.. halal and lucifer are "pure".
We got crux australis... north america got porcus flappus grandus... we win!
Crackling?
Henk V.
Sunday 6th February 2011 | 10:25 PMGilly quote "Context Jake context
The Jews had been destroyed by the Babylonians and that is how King David saw Justice served. Yes the Jews are a violent race as they have always been
Did God sanction it? It certainly seems so.
Was it justified? Obviously
If Satan can destroy the Jews then he will destroy the word of God. No prophecy can come true.
No point telling me how violent Jews are I can read the papper. I know Jews probably dashed babys heads on to rocks and it was acceptable, but I often wonder why some races needed to be purged from the Earth. I have a sneaky though "
Gilly, you have never read the bible... The mythical David lived 400 years before the exile to Babylon.
The dashing of babies heads was a line that was missed by Boney M in their pitiful rehash of a psalm.
Lets face it, if the Israelites and consequently Judah really was a relatively violent race.. they were legends in their own lunch boxes.
There is no evidence of it.
To extrapolate this to present day middle eastern politics is insane, I really don't care if you inferred this or not. God doesn't do this as god is a cup cake between jupiter and saturn.
People exterminate... they just blame god . I blame my cigarette lighter for my bad cough.. My cigarette lighter is REAL.
Can you try reading Dawn or Sorbent? borrow your neighbours after they have tossed it out. I know you'll see a lot of shit, but man, its nothing compared to your imagination.
...in response to this comment by Henk V.. Yo dude!
f~
Hey Dumbo
Monday 7th February 2011 | 08:31 AMSo I got it wrong on the Babylonians I will survive that issue I am sure Dumbo.
Thanks for the correction though
The point Dumbo is the Jews killed under Gods orders. Yahweh (who I obviously believe in) is not a cute cuddly God.
Is that to hard for Jake to comprehend, maybe you even
and legends in their own lunchbox? Really?
are you that stupid Dumbo?
The whole world is on a knife edge over Egypt as we speak because of Israel.
The whole world is on a knife edge over Iran as we speak because of Israel.
The whole world is on a knife edge over Palestine as we speak because of Israel.
I could go on
Since the inception of Israel they have been at war yet they still have a global presence as a people and nation
Each to his own
Henk V.
Monday 7th February 2011 | 07:21 PMI am sure you and Tim McHyde sleep in the same lunch box.
No Israel were always a fiefdom of her neighbours except for a very short period.
Should you actually read the bible you'd actually notice this.
No the whole world is on a knife edge because of what's gone on before. Nothing to do with the israel of old. There are plenty of other flash points. I clearly remember the old farts club in a titter about the satanic communists not so long ago... nothing to do with israel.
Lets face it Dumbo, you're a religious fashionista that is....colour blind.
There is no evidence of Israel or Judah-Benjamin being a ..."violent race" that predominated anywhere but their ...lunchbox.
The old testament to past the Ezdras, Esra-Nehemiah is about the establishment of a nation covenant with a local storm god. Its unique as this priestly only religion was unique.
Cough up with some real argument for a change. If you don't believe in the old testament as you are a christian (you've said this a zillion times) don't stick your head out for turtle necking.
You know fuck all ancient history or modern history, bugger all bout the OT, you missed the point of the NT and you disparage the Quran.
That makes you religious. It surely makes you an authority on repetitive gossip bout what's in between the covers of the fantastic tomes.
Yep, you are just like McHyde. Except he does a far better job of scaring little old ladies.
Henk V.
Monday 7th February 2011 | 07:23 PM...in response to this comment by Friendo. Yo Buddy! Coming to the baby sacrificing satanic cross dressing annual ball on Friday?
How have you been?
...in response to this comment by Henk V.. I'm there man...
f~
Henk V.
Tuesday 8th February 2011 | 04:05 AM...in response to this comment by Friendo. Think I'm having a Carol King moment.
Flake?
Jake Farr-Wharton
Tuesday 8th February 2011 | 07:02 AMHenk, shoot me an email jake at gmail dot com
Hey Dumbo
Tuesday 8th February 2011 | 07:02 AMGo back to working on what tribe of Israel I came from, silly boy.
I never suggested that Israel were a Conquering nation, I said they were a violent race.
Israel had Kings....you know...Monarchy...and the religious rulers held power....you know...theocracy.
You can use whatever word your comfortable with though Dumbo including Fiefdom though thats like calling a thickshake a drink
and please tell me Dumbo why you dont think I believe in the Old Testament
Again I see clearly you have no idea what you are talking about, not only have you no idea what you are talking about but you do it in great ranting volumes, incessant dribblings, nonsensical regurgitrations of others words that you chew up and then vomit out.
Go watch some more Oprah and The Circle, best you stay sharp Dumbo
Hey again Dumbo
Tuesday 8th February 2011 | 07:04 AMPlease dont tell me why you think I dont believe in the OT
I am not really interested
Thanks
Henk V.
Tuesday 8th February 2011 | 03:21 PMYour ignorance xpounds itslf again...
Israel had a few kings but which ones were a united israel. Were violent? to whom... israel and judah were basically t it for a littl while... so what..
In terms of "violence" the fact is comparatively these were weak Semitic countries under the oppressive power of the egyptians (who werent that bad either), the assyrians, the Hittites, the mesopotamians and the pelesh various.
As I said to Jake and his buddy atheist Tyler.. Until Ezra, nobody got the schtick together.
I just like correcting you..
PS I asked you a number of questions.. I have them dated on a word file. I have never asked you hat tribe of israel you came from.. I asked you what noachian tribe you came from.
I'm still waiting for some sort of answer, you prize ignorant... Its an embarrassment that an australian is as fucking dumb as you are.
What ark animal did Ham eat?
Henk V.
Tuesday 8th February 2011 | 03:36 PMHmm that addy didn't work... undeliverable error.. Send a message to my son, he'll pick it up and pass on direct connect addresses when he gets home from sweating italian food at the restaurant..
Yep, I get to wash his reeking, oily, garlic chef's gear only once a week from now on... Hallelujah!
Gilly
Tuesday 8th February 2011 | 10:06 PMThere you go Jake and thats from another athiest
Dashing baby's heads in wasnt something ordained by God according or whatever Dumbo is saying
Ultimately Jake Dumbos calling you stupid for what you said
and Dumbo you asked me what Jewish tribe I was from you flying pachyderm, dont blatantly lie.
Tee hee hee
henk v.
Tuesday 8th February 2011 | 11:04 PMI didnt say dashing babies heads was anything ordained by yahweh... its a curse laid on in a psalm... learn your meter within ancient prose.
Frankly Dumbo or greely or what ever you are... you dont understand the OT... and I doubt you understand any ancint prose at all..
No, I asked you were you from shem, ham or japeth... you fucking ignorant idiot...
did your tribe fuck noahs wife? that is the curse... obliterated by the priestly and deuteronomic... but clearly in the mythologic, the conformity and the yahwistik and the elohist interp...
of course, you didnt know..
For sombody calling dumbo, you are a blue whale's prick... just fucking endless and always willing to change the tune.
you havent a clue what I am talking about do you? Its why the atheist Tyler friggen ran like fuck.
Henk V
Tuesday 8th February 2011 | 11:12 PMso I repeat... you low coward.. start answering instad of spitting or prosletysling
The ever increasing survey... till Hey Dumbo can answer a question..
question ii was the original question and is valid
The overriding question is If you are a Christian as you claim, and you dont care what is written in the OT as that would make you a Jew as you claim, why the hell are you a creationist?
I'll answer your questions when I get the right answers out of you for the below
The OT
i. What plants and animals were in the garden of eden?
ii. Which tribe are you ? Shem, Ham Japheth or Canaan? Two months and counting
iii. What ark animal did Ham eat?
iv. Who wrote the torah as you know it?
v. Who brought the Torah to Jerusalem?
vi. Who made a deal to combine two gods the god of the old testament?
vii. The sodomites had an establishing, cordial and continuous relationship with which biblical hero?
viii. Why doesnt the term onanism make terribly much sense?
ix. How did Joshua, David, Solomon, Samuel and Eli constantly defy gods law in the torah?
x. Who pointed it out?
xi. So how did jesus get to ignore it?
xii. Whats the good thing about the message of the Job story?
The NT
i. Why isnt jesus very good at all? Which biblical character of note emphasises this?
ii. Why is jesus called messiah?
iii. Why is there a case for the canonical gospels to be placed in the OT of the Christian Bible?
iv. What is the new testament position on slavery.
v. Who was the first person to get special dispensation to go to heaven under the new Jesuit religion?
vi. jesus died on the cross, who rose from the dead?
a) All the saints.
b) Maybe jesus
c) jesus was reputed to have risen
d) Nobody was told by witnesses.
e) Just a heck of a lot of people.
f) Only the one
g) None of the above
h) All of the above
vii. If the writer of the torah is right, which NT hero will never see the lord?
viii. Why?
ix. After 20 years joshing with the folk and the guys back at home what did Paul never ever know?
The spinners
i. Who is satan? Justify your answer.
ii. Who is lucifer?
iii. Who is the Beast
iv. Who is halal?
v. Why is chamosh tougher than Yahweh?
vi. Which god is the god of the bible?
vii. What physical proof is there of a biblical jesus?
viii. Who was involved in the immaculate conception?
ix. Now to the clincher.. If Christianity is right and Judaism is wrong (as you keep on insisting) which book of the new testament do you have to exclude/ignore at all costs?
allieds
i. How many buffalo did buffalo bill kill?
ii. Who got the Nobel for the weight of nothing observation?
iii. Do quantum mechanics get over time?
iv. Which one of these wouldnt work if creationism were true;
A) Photosynthesis
B) Pcs
C) Cars
D) Mobile phones
Science under, mate anything will fucking do..just tell us you base scientific method...if any at all;
1. List the number of successful posits Creation science has made. Start with year and list year the posits have produced a reliable model.
2. List the number of successful models Creation science has made. Start with year and list year the models have produced a reliable observation.
3. List the number of successful observations Creation science has made. Start with year and list year the models have produced a reliable prediction.
4. List the number of successful predictions Creation science has made. Start with year and list year the predictions have come to pass.
5. List any application Creation science has produced (look ill settle for stir fried beans, just list it and justify it). Dont use a pc to list these as you know, if creation sciences tenets hold true, your pc wont work. It also means youve lost the phone a friend option.
6. What has creation science done in science?
Henk V
Tuesday 8th February 2011 | 11:13 PMps its four months and counting now..
get some fact behind you
Hey Dumbo
Wednesday 9th February 2011 | 11:51 AMtemper temper temper
Put your masculinity aside you impertinent little child
Dumbo you asked me what Jewish tribe I was from you flying pachyderm, dont blatantly lie.
Tee hee hee
and I will say it again in relation to your petty boring questions Dumbo
I dont have your answers
I love good ol RL and I love the people it attracts.
Hey Rod
Can you see the kind of hate Christianity attracts
Old Dumbo and Jake here should make it quite clear to everyone.
Jews are not the only group hated by people, you are not alone in your persecutions and it isnt only levelled at religious groups.
Self pity Rodney is a demon, if you want to wallow in it...
Hey Dumbo Hu Hu ha huh
Henk V.
Wednesday 9th February 2011 | 12:21 PMI dont hate Christians, I hate profound ignorance, avoidance and plain lying. Sorry dumbo, your peripheral view of your own religion is pathetic.
Hey Dumbo
Thursday 10th February 2011 | 07:38 AMYou hate ignorance?
Are you saying you know everything and you understand the whole Judaic Christian faith system
Silly boy...I get the feeling you are telling little porky pies there Dumbo
The funny thing about you Dumbo is that you and your mate Jake are what Christ came to Earth to release mankind from. Piousness and religiosity, yes the two of you exude it. The; I am smarter than thou I am better than thou,the I know everything attitude.
You and Jake are the modern day Pharisees of this world. Exuding self righteousness and arrogance
Demand that I HAVE to answer your questions...Are you kidding me. You are delusional. Who do you think you are? ( and I dont believe you have a clue as to what the true answers are so what would be the point)
Hey Dumbo all you do is string words together and rant.
I firmly believe since you came to RL this sight has gone backwards. People dont want to listen to the crap you harp on about. You arnt even entertaining never mind sensible
You dumbo are all bitter and twisted and tormented, crawling with demons. You cant control yourself
I cant judge you I pity you, what you have allowed yourself to become. Petty petty little man
bolstered by anonymity and big words
Praise God I dont meet your standard
Henk V.
Thursday 10th February 2011 | 07:49 AMso you still can't answer a simple question reposted yesterday?... sheesh
Since October the 22 you have been avoiding opening up your bible and having a quick peek...
Mustafa
Thursday 10th February 2011 | 06:00 PM...in response to this comment by Henk V.. One post does not adress the other post at all.
This man say one thing
Next talks about something else
Henk V.
Thursday 10th February 2011 | 06:44 PM...in response to this comment by Gilly. WRT to this comment made by "Gilly"..
It really doesnt matter what version you read, Gen 12 is about Jacob's grand father (Jacob was renamed IsRael ..akin to defied gods.
Jacobs son was Judah.
The passage Gilly was about Abram or Avram (which ever bent you are). Technically he wasn't a Jew but the father of nations that Yahweh or El (You'd have to ask Melchizedek about which) made covenant with..
Read on.. from the NIV (Not my favourite version but easy reading);
Genesis 12
The Call of Abram
1 The LORD had said to Abram, Go from your country, your people and your fathers household to the land I will show you.
2 I will make you into a great nation,
and I will bless you;
I will make your name great,
and you will be a blessing.[a]
3 I will bless those who bless you,
and whoever curses you I will curse;
and all peoples on earth
will be blessed through you.
This was when Avram was supposed to live north of the Chaldees..which if (especially apologetic christianity) biblical history is correct, didn't exist yet. He wasn't even Semitic if the biblical timing is correct.
But Dear Ezra, who claimed to have rewritten the histories and Torah, must have been right.
As I have said, If you dont love reading this stuff. Don't bother commenting.
Henk V.
Thursday 10th February 2011 | 06:46 PMGiven he was from the line of Shem, in the bible, you can already see the divergence of lore.
You have 2 left to pick from Gilly.
Henk V
Thursday 10th February 2011 | 07:33 PM...in response to this comment by gilly. amongst other libellous calls by Gilly
The serpent wasn't the ha-satan. Thats a ridiculous call made by you guessed it...apologists,
Jesus is not a god in the NT and wasn't declared as part of a trinity till much later. The waffly text you read is John is quite often copied from Philo's musings about Yahweh. A few name changes and hey presto, the first gnostic text to hit the stands as "gospel". But no defining promotion of Jesus within the demi-urge (nobody would have stomached that!). It took your catholic ancestors to do that Gilly.
It looks delusional because much of this Johanine text is about something other than Jesus.
Hey, If the poetry is good, who cares bout the terminology?
There is a defining moment that is explicit of this non godhead. Its the answer to two of my questions in the list you are probably trying to get your buddies to answer.
PS try not to get too hung up about Arius' herecy.. That would probably ruin your life.
Hey Dumbo
Friday 11th February 2011 | 08:38 AMWhy dont you back those statements up with facts and scripture
Oh you cant
No intent of dignifying your insane rants with answers Dumbo
If you have read the Bible, doubtfully, clearly you havnt the comprehension skills to understand it.
I will offer you this Dumbo. Read the Bible and interpret it yourself, dont rely on others interpretations.
When every one else is wrong and you are right all the time, in general its a good indication that you are mentally deficient
You know Dumbo I am now of the opinion you are not the full six pack. I have lost interest in your retarded rants
Henk V.
Tuesday 15th February 2011 | 09:37 PMJake can have the answer sheet with references anytime he asks Goldilocks. You are the one who doesnt know Judah from Avram, satan from Ha-Satan, Jacob from Avram or Canaan from Cain. Do you know who apportioned Yahweh to israel (the nation)?
That one is probably the one that made the lion of Ju-wooDah leave. If you cant cope with that extensively repeated piece of info (throughout the Torah) you probably do not deserve to own a bible... let alone sleep in a hotel. Yup, its so enforced that gideons couldn't iron that one out.
Truly you are the belly flop of biblical study and there is no way I am going to feed you and educate your buddies in the process.
Me? I've removed the Gideons from every hotel I have stayed at. The level of revisionism is offensive to me. I leave a far more reliable new world in its place..
Hey Dumbo
Thursday 17th February 2011 | 07:42 AMSo you wont answer my questions yet demand I answer yours
H Y P O C R I S Y?
Strangely not suprised you wont bring any research you have to the table
Reading your posts is akin to reading a marvel comic. Common sense, logic and reality must be instantly discarded
Henk V.
Thursday 17th February 2011 | 07:56 PMI am happy to answer your questions as I have done in the past.
Your normal inane attack on measurement is something queer and "hortle, chortle)... so just as with Ju Ju (who accude me of severe naturalism..) I placed the ball in your court and asked you two very simple questions... straight from the tome I read daily (between national standards and ISO and... Law) and ask..
If you think creationism is so good... which of the three sons of noah should ye come from me great hairy right toe?
Its in the bible and youve never read it and never bothered to..
Then all I asked was another question, what ark animal did Ham eat? its in genesis mate.. why cant you answer that simple one.
You can't go on chortling and accusing folk of being scientism bent when, your creationism is even all that creative.
So since Oct 22 you have basically been hanstrung as a creationist as you now have to start a rethink.. A mythical event is a mythical event.
Having said that, as a believer, you certainly do not want an historical Noah (or Jesus for that matter) as the historical people can make no claim, but mythical people can. Jesus historical is of no consequence for the church. A jesus representing amerinds and Cylons is all too important for Mormons and Scientologists. A jesus that is all loving and never is naughty and can tell folk they will sit next to them when they are dead (even though Jesus will not be in a position to do so) is all important.. an itinerant preacher is a nobody unless you are Jewish.
So call me a hypocrite, but you'd be wrong, I am insanely pedantic.
As far as I am concerned, pedantry is the form work of knowledge. Being religious or scientific.
It would do you good not to misquote the bible time after time... the pedant will pick up on it every time.
so another question... who is the oldest person in the bible?
I'll let you off if you get one of these three.
Jake will see this coming a mile off... Subjectivity with out any measurand is called gossip.
Henk V.
Friday 18th February 2011 | 06:27 AM...in response to this comment by Hey Dumbo. Actually it has been me who has pulled your misquotes time and time again showing you haven't read or unstood a passage or a myth.
How you had David, king of 17 houses on a raggedy hill, bemoaning by the rivers of babylon is laughable, having Avram as a jew was a scream.
That was so well written but oh so...wrong..
What's next the trinity of Isaiah?
Anyway, who is the longest living human in the bible?
If you really like, I'll give you all the quiz answers if you attempt to answer them first. Send them PRV to Jake and he can then mark yours and Post them against mine..
You should nail me being such a good scholar... I am only a lowly nihilist.
Hey Dumbo
Friday 18th February 2011 | 01:50 PMBah Bow
*Chortle Chortle*
I answered you I will answer you again
I d o n t k n o w. See I typed slowly so it may give you time to absorb/comprehend that answer.
Listen Dumbo, unlike evoloutard scientists, near enough isnt good enough when studying the bible.
Your assumption could indeed be correct, but there is no evidence is there boy. Show me the scripture based evidence. Its only an assumption that you have accepted. Somebody elses opinion that you have placed your faith in.
What question am I talking about....both. Both these questions have no hard factual answer to them.....only assumptions. That may be good enough for you but it isnt for me
I dont have an answer Dumbo
The geographical direction of different
families in accordance with Genesis 10.
In the dispersion families were grouped together and for the most part migrated in one general direction. To illustrate, the following is a selected list of names from the genealogies of each of Noah's sons with the general geographical location associated with each, from the historical record.
The Descendants of Japheth: The Indo-European of western Asia and of Europe. (Gen. 10:2-4)
Gomer: Probably the Cimmerians which are mentioned by Homer as the people of the far north (Odys. xl. 14). They are believed to be identical with the Cimmerians of Roman times and the Cymry of Wales.12
Magog: Josephus and Greek writers generally relate them as the Scythians of Southern Europe. Also associated with the Tartars of Russia.13
Madai: Medes who lived in area of Caspian Sea.14
Javan: Comes from the term Ionian which means Greeks.
The Descendants of Ham: The Egyptians, Ethiopians, Libyans and Canaanites. Gen. 10:6-20.
Cush: Peoples of central and Southern Arabia.15 &nbshp; The Ethiopians are shown as being inhabitants of both sides of the Red Sea. Also, they had a skin of a different appearance. (Jer. 13:23) Pictures on monuments show that they were a mixed race, some Negro, some Semite and some Caucasian.16 This is a very important fact and will be referred to later.
Mizraim: Refers to areas of upper and lower Nile River of Egypt thus a reference to Egyptians.
Phut: Generally associated with the Egyptians and more specifically Libya.17
Canaan: The area settled by Canaan and his sons was west of the River Jordan. His first born
Sidon (Zidon) name stood for the whole Phoenician coast.18
The Descendants Shem: The peoples of the Middle East and Southern Asia. Gen. 10:21-32.
Eber: Abraham was the sixth generation of Eber who settled in Mesopotamia in the area of Ur of the Chaldees (Gen. 11).
Elam: Geographically the region beyond the Tigris River, east of Babylonia. The Elamites became a strong nation and were recognized as sovereign by the Babylonian states.19
Asshur: The Assyrians of the head waters of the Tigris and Euphrates Rivers.
Lud: The Lydians of Asia Minor.
Aram: Aramaeans of Syria and Mesopotamia.
From these observations it seems that Shem's progeny settled in the Middle East, Ham's people went south into Africa and Japheth's descendants migrated north into Western Asia and Europe.
It is important to recognize that from the Bible and from history, specific statements cannot be made that Shem fathered all Orientals, Ham all black people or Japheth all white people. Note that the Ethiopians are represented as being all three colors. This is a good example which shows that Ham produced peoples of varying colors.
Lets talk genetics
Hey Dumbo
Friday 18th February 2011 | 02:05 PMWhat animal did Ham eat? As I said I dont know
So Dumbo answer it, now I dont want a silly pat answer about there being clean animals on board blah blah
I want it clear and referenced, I want an answer where it states what animal Ham ate on the ark, because as I said before .................I dont know
Go get em boy, go tear a hole in them stupid Christians
Henk V.
Friday 18th February 2011 | 02:41 PM...in response to this comment by Hey Dumbo. If you note in the deuteronomic version of the flood, Ham ate many ark animals. This version version (when written) had to force clean animals far earlier than the "mosaic texts".
You'd think this would be a problem? No, not even for me... As Ezra wrote the torah, the later texts didn't really give a hoot who ate clean animals from start to exile.
Hey Dumbo
Friday 18th February 2011 | 02:43 PM...in response to this comment by Henk V.. I just read this and am gob smacked by your own arrogance
Your pedantic ( I just wet myself luaghing) your a simpleton
Lets play out your last question re oldest people/person in the Bible after we talk about what animal Ham ate on the ark and what tribe of Noahs sons you assume different cultures are descendant from
Pedantic you flying paciderm? Pedantic? You cant even correctly phrase a question, and then you expect somebody to have the ability to decipher your dribbling nonsense and claim, no exalt your penchant for being pedantic.
I still maintain you asked me what Jewish tribe I was from and you call yourself pedantic.
So Pedantic *chortle*chortle* Dumbo, you answer the vague stupid question that you threw up and I will tell you why you are wrong
Fair Dinkum Dumbo you are an idiot and you have no way on Earth of getting that question right
Answer me who is the oldest person in the Bible and I will tell you why you are wrong
Henk V
Friday 18th February 2011 | 02:45 PM...in response to this comment by Hey Dumbo. near enough in biblical study is ok for myth... I have stated that before.
Shem-
Ham_
Japeth
The story is not about them at all, its a late 6th century rehash of the mesopotamian "flood myth"
All the stuff about recreation is a very older story..
The cain/ canaan ultimate embarrasmemt to the clan is the same as well..
Ask your preacher.
Hey Dumbo Dumbo
Friday 18th February 2011 | 02:47 PM...in response to this comment by Henk V.. Dumbo twice because once just isnt good enough
Remember this comment by me
"So Dumbo answer it, now I dont want a silly pat answer about there being clean animals on board blah blah
I want it clear and referenced, I want an answer where it states what animal Ham ate on the ark"
Pedantic you call yourself Dumbo
JUST ANSWER THE QUESTION PROPERLY OR EVERY ONE WILL THINK YOU ARE STUPID
WHAT ANIMAL DID HAM EAT ON THE ARK
REFERENCES PLEASE
PRETTY PLEASE
Hey Dumbo Dumbo
Friday 18th February 2011 | 02:53 PM...in response to this comment by Henk V. Come on, you are wonderfuly pedantic and clever
Answer the questions or are you grasping at straws and doing the evoloutard deflection thing, you know talking nonsense cos you have so mant holes that you cant float it anymore
Mesopatamia chortle chortle
WHAT ANIMAL DID HAM EAT ON THE ARK
WHAT TRIBE AM I FROM
SHOW ME THE EVIDENCE
I AM ASKING YOU THESE QUESTIONS PLEASE COURTEOUSLY ANSWER THEM PROPERLY WITH OUT DEFLECTING
WHO IS/WAS THE OLDEST MAN IN THE BIBLE
Hey Dumbo Dumbo Dumbo
Friday 18th February 2011 | 03:01 PMNear enough is NOW good enough for you then?
An assumption is fine then?..............YOU DIDNT KNOW IT WAS AN ASSUMPTION DID YAH.....WHO LOOKS SILLY NOW DUMBO..... YOU EVEN TRUMPETED HOW PEDANTIC YOU ARE........AND NOW NEAR ENOUGH IS GOOD ENOUGH
EVERYTHING ABOUT YOU LOOKS A LITTLE VAGUE AND NONSENSE BASED NOW
You assume to much........silly silly boy
Henk V.
Friday 18th February 2011 | 03:04 PMI will stick to the biblical argument until you say...doggo.
Its just sad that you are arguing with a nihilist who understands myth literature far better than your congregation does.
Should I tear that second last post to pieces? No.
I have thought you have had enough by now.
As I have said, I am pedantic and I have grown up wih the old testament driving the taboos of the new. This is unlike you who has repeatedly denied the old testament... after all, you are not a "jew" as you say...
Bye Dumbo
Friday 18th February 2011 | 03:09 PMIf I was Dumbo I wouldnt show my face around here again
How embarrassing, toweled up by a stupid myth believing Christian
How embarrassing asking questions that Dumbo didnt know the answers for
How embarrassing when Dumbo got his own questions wrong
How embarrassing when he trumpeted his own pedantics and ended up settling for assumptions
You know Dumbo even I make mistakes sometimes chortle chortle
Hey Dumbo infinity
Friday 18th February 2011 | 03:14 PMHey Dumbo can you point me in the direction of me denying the OT
You see Dumbo as a Christian I rely on the OT. Its the word of God
You are off on one of your nonsense tangents again
You are dribbling nonsense again
I dare you Dumbo
Friday 18th February 2011 | 03:25 PMto answer these questions properly referenced and courteously
WHAT ANIMAL DID HAM EAT ON THE ARK
WHAT TRIBE AM I FROM (my family can be traced back to the UK)
WHO IS/WAS THE OLDEST MAN IN THE BIBLE
Henk V
Friday 18th February 2011 | 03:54 PMEasy peasy...
Noah sacrificed animals.. an unknown in the first tradition versus Deuteronimic tradition. Two stories two traditions. Josiah's Tradition is 1900 years outside of the mythic tradition. Read Gen pls.. Sacrifice only required certain thins.. But there was no sacrifice amomgst. J and E at the "time of Noah". This came later.. read Gen.
According to tradition, Ham ate the flesh as all through the OT.. Yahweh only likes fat. (it smells good!)
the tribes of Noah do not include us atlantic gene folk. Nor does it include Amerindian or Australian. It doesn't include marsupials either.
Enoch.
Please, dont be a twat...
Henk V.
Friday 18th February 2011 | 04:16 PMI would love exchange.. Both You and Ju Ju never supplied real and OT into NT.
Sad... I am a hack
Hey Dumbo
Friday 18th February 2011 | 04:21 PMWow that all sounds so good and interesting and intriguing
but
Its all twaddle nonsense based on nothing till you can reference it and prove it.
I have seen better arguments from evolotards than that
References Dumbo
answer the questions
Lay off the crack Dumbo
Friday 18th February 2011 | 04:23 PM...in response to this comment by Henk V.. What nonsense is that, your dribbling again Dumbo
Henk V.
Saturday 19th February 2011 | 09:11 AMReferences you ask?
food
Gen 1;29
animals entering the ark
Gen6; 19 (priestly) vs Gen 7;2 (Deuteronomistic)
Gen 8;20 altar, burned offering (deutoronomistic ritual)
Gen 21 (lord responds appropriately as in Deuteronomy)
Seeing the Lord predates his own contact... the Noah tribe bock into the flesh... Ham ate of clean animals
Contract.. now even you could'nt have forgotten that one could you?
Henk V.
Saturday 19th February 2011 | 09:12 AMsorry, read Gen 8;21 for Gen 21
hey dumbo
Saturday 19th February 2011 | 01:59 PM
WHAT ANIMAL DID HAM EAT ON THE ARK
WHAT TRIBE AM I FROM (my family can be traced back to the UK)
WHO IS/WAS THE OLDEST MAN IN THE BIBLE
Henk V.
Saturday 19th February 2011 | 03:18 PMI never asked you what animal Ham ate on the ark, He bocked in on the family as soon as they got off. Noah, sacrificed clean animals. Ham ate the flesh with the rest of the family. I answered that above.
If you are part of the sets that are described as Slavic, Finno-urgic, nordic or the atlantic gene , You are not related to anyone mentioned in(like moi) Gen 10;4, 10;8 and 10;30. These tribes are scripturally delineated elsewhere. You are in fact a plant (biblically speaking).. Its not so bad tho, so am I.
Enoch is the oldest man in the bible. Ive stated that before.
Bet you feel dumb not being able to answer these and having a major tantrum instead.
I do have an advantage tho, I am in possesion of a early 70's schofeilds reference with concordance. These translators are possibly the loopiest I have come across and they have all the conspiracy notions you sometimes see today in 60+ year old christians. Sadly, these are simply checked, as you could have done in October.
Nearly 4 months of dancing on the ceiling instead of opening your bible makes for great cred there kiddo.
Henk V
Saturday 19th February 2011 | 06:11 PMSo now me sorry fellow...
Which tribe of ISRAEL had a placename before their grandfather was born?
Henk V
Saturday 19th February 2011 | 07:03 PMAbraham had dealings with a nation in 1200BCE yet traded in 800BCE... given that he is supposed to be the father of everyone pre 1600BC can you discount his travel route..
Or will you just admit, avram is a myth like moses (who visited cities in 450BCE)?
Henk V.
Saturday 19th February 2011 | 08:16 PM...in response to this comment by Gilly. As you inferred with reference to the bible in this post... you just haven't got a frikken clue...
It's like you have british israel world federation literature on tap..
Its OK, Tim McHyde (the thinking mans sorbolene) has the same..
But at least he gets money out of it...Not as inventive or as rich as the lugubrious chuck missler, but at least he is doing OK.
I am glad I met you Gilly, it prepares me for terrorists in bible class.
Mind you, people I meet prepare and argue. Its not even diametrically opposed to you..
You argue for the hell of it. Hell I'll misquote and brush it off and I'll use other peoples answers.
If you argue bible, argue biblical answers or established archaeology.. Not Robert E Howard.
Hey Dumbo
Sunday 20th February 2011 | 07:15 AMAhh Enoch you reckon
I figured you didnt believe in the "myths " yet you want to ask me silly questions about myths?
Enoch was taken to heaven if I remember correctly, and if I remember correctly there is no time in heaven. See Dumbo I dont believe Enoch would have aged a day
So, bah bow, Dumbo. It cant be Enoch as you state
I guess sometimes I can be a little pedantic with biblical questions too.
Hey I know Dumbo, have another guess
Hey Dumbo
Sunday 20th February 2011 | 07:28 AMAgain I misunderstood your vaguely worded nonsensical question
"What ark animal did ham eat?"
I just figured you meant what animal on the ark did Ham eat, because all the animals were on the ark, once off the ark they would then become "animals"
Stupendously stupidly worded question
And you call yourself pedantic, what a JOKE. If you want to big note yourself by belittling me and score points, at least word your questions so they are easily understood
You need to learn how to communicate Dumbo
You really are
Henk V
Sunday 20th February 2011 | 07:44 AMand the clean animals werent ark animals?
Like Noah raced around the country side looking for new ones?
why havent you bitched about the other questions then?
Hey Dumbo
Sunday 20th February 2011 | 07:45 AM...in response to this comment by Henk V. Another fantastically vague question
Do you personally make these dates up or parrot them from some source you have on tap
Either way shouldnt you back them up with some evidence or do you just take somebodys word for it as gospel
*chortle chortle*
The more I read from you Dumbo the more I see how little you think you know,
the more I see how much faith you have in other people and their beliefs,
the more I see how confused you are
Sadly Dumbo you are smitten by your own cleverness and its all based on nonsense that you have by faith accepted as gospel truth
I pity you
I will pray for you
Henk V
Sunday 20th February 2011 | 07:56 AMlook I could have asked who was born before Noah, didnt go on the ark and yet survived the flood? Witnessed the whole damn thing and was mentioned many times since? He is even to have been reputed to have written a book or two..
Every question I'd ask is like that... you have to just put your thinking cap on for a few seconds
Hey Dumbo
Sunday 20th February 2011 | 08:07 AM...in response to this comment by Henk V. Yes Dumbo I agree the clean animals were ark animals
Though once off the ark, I figured them for just simple animals
Your question suggested that you were asking me what animals on the ark did Ham eat, or that is how I understood your question
Tricky for a pedantist I can understand
Hey Dumbo
Sunday 20th February 2011 | 08:17 AM...in response to this comment by Henk V. Yeah Dumbo you could have asked that question but you went down your vague nonsensical track instead
You could have worded your question differently, thats my point boy
The problem is its hard to score points and big note yourself without giving the game away
Methuselah nearly made it to 1000 years of age before dying
Enoch went to heaven
From where I sit you could never have gotten that question correct. It was a stupidly worded question. Clarify what you ask in future.
I am not interested in your opinion of my faith, I dont answer to you
Henk V
Sunday 20th February 2011 | 08:59 AMI dont have an opinion of your faith. I just wish you wouldn't mal appropriate the bible regularly.
In light of Noah's spectacular animal husbandry in the myth, its worth asking that question..
EVERYBODY OFF THE TUB... LETS KILL us some ark critters..
It indicated the different points of view of the redactor set when the story was finally cobbled together.
It makes the bible the best read there is.. all its versions. How does every variant of "monotheism" deal with its covenants.
Hadnt you ever asked yourself this.. at what stage pre mosaic was there any requirement to make burnt offering?
Either Noah was another Dr Who as Avram or, the myth was added to much later. You criticise me for making you understand that over the past 4 months?
PS, Enoch didnt go to heaven, he was taken up by the lord. The people who initiated this story actually had a problem with going into the earth, not winning going to heaven.
The heaven thing is a much, much later idea..
Hey Dumbo
Sunday 20th February 2011 | 11:41 AMand I am to believe your opinion
Get your head out of your own bottoms orifice
Come on Dumbo, you spout without a drop of evidence. Only a week minded athiest/catholic like Jake would fall for your rantings
Go preach to baseless nonsense to somebody a little more gullible
Over and over again you preach based on your opinion without a drop of evidence, your whole faith is based on smoke and mirrors that you constantly move to justify your own beliefs
NOT ONCE HAVE YOU OFFERED ANY EVIDENCE ITS ALL A BASELESS OPINION THAT YOU HAVE INVENTED AND THEN CLUNG TO
and because I dont fear or care that I dont understand everything in the Bible or even wish people to think I do, tell me Dumbo
What does it matter when the requirements for burnt offerings began, and why should I be concerned
Henk V
Sunday 20th February 2011 | 12:50 PM...in response to this comment by Hey Dumbo. see references above..
what are you standing on the ceiling about now?
Henk V.
Monday 21st February 2011 | 08:51 AMcould you please find out what the word myth refers to in historical literature?
History is full of myths and most accounts of people in history are embellished by stories.
eg tou'll find the myth of Napoleon being presented to you a lot more often than the true history? Why? because we get a lot of material that was embellished at the time.
Now as to Noah, yes it is not only a real mythical myth but its the embellishment of two creation stories common to the Levant a long time before the old testament was redacted and cobbled together in the 6th, 5th and 4th centuries BCE.
I wouldn't blame you for not knowing about other creation and flood myths as you probably hadn't read them (you are consistent). The fact that you go beserk and carry on like a child needing its icecream spoon fed to it is your problem not mine.
Read your own myths so at least you have a leg to stand on when arguing these to others. All i have seen from you is misquote and mal-appropriation. Thats consistent for apologists.
After all I can understand that you cant deal with science and math. Not many people can. If you are going to ague a creationist position (the easy way out), could you at least find out what the original creationist position is.
and yep, going back 2500 years for a statement in a contract with yahweh is in no way...enough.
Did you note that... the torah is a contract...
Hey Dumbo
Monday 21st February 2011 | 04:39 PMYeah, Yeah,Yeah, No,Yeah, Yeah, No, No, Yeah ,Yeah ....but not in that specific order
You have a lot of faith in those other creation storys dont you Dumbo, in those other flood myths hey Dumbo.
Why is that, because its opposed to mine, its opposed to what the Bible states
Your faith is in some other book, good for you
The middle East will erupt into war in a few months maybe sooner fighting over Israel and you question what the Bible states
Henk V.
Monday 21st February 2011 | 06:07 PMthe middle east has been at war since the falling Caliphate of the 13th century..
Ok, so what are the observations and perdictions of creationism that have made it into science?
Science dear Hey Dumbo, Science.
I am sure that if you knew something correct and posted it, I would say, that's correct Hey Dumbo. Lets discuss the implications.
In the bible Yahweh was apportioned to Israel.. according to you, Moses actually wrote it (personally I think it was a redact of Josiah's flunky at work).
There I have almost told you the passage..actually my songbird.. the exact passage... now go look it up and argue the point.
Henk V.
Monday 21st February 2011 | 10:47 PMIt would be really nice you answer rather than doing a Lionel (dancing on the ceiling).
I'll make you an edict.. when you go off your tree without reference... I'll just call Lionel Saves the limers having to watch you neck yourself in public
Henk V.
Monday 21st February 2011 | 10:50 PMIf you cast a bullshit reference as in King David or Abram (duh!) I'll call an Alan, In Oz an Alan gets caught in a London dunny with a dick in its mouth....
Hey Dumbo
Tuesday 22nd February 2011 | 11:42 AMI wont waste my time with justifying anything of what I believe to you for the same reason you wouldnt wate your time espousing your faith in evolution to me.
*yawm * I am getting bored of your rhetoric
http://www.drdino.com/
Henk V
Wednesday 23rd February 2011 | 03:51 PMyou still around? I thought youd have died of embarrasment not knowing the bible and espousing creationism.
I have faith in the methodology of evolutionary science. Its the same as all other science.
They know that Noah had nothing to do with the canaanites, you dont. Whats worse, you dont even know why you dont..
Hey Dumbo
Wednesday 23rd February 2011 | 08:44 PMRepeatable
Observable and
Testable and dont let those pesky lying scientists confuse you, they who rely on government grants to work and gain peer respect to justify their position and income
What I dont know Dumbo and I suspect you havnt a clue to as well..... is what the hell you are talking about. Canaanite s and Noah?
No more fruity loops for you breakfast time, it causes your ADHD to flair
Rodney
Tuesday 1st February 2011 | 01:40 PMAnd these views continue to this very day. Views espoused by Martin Luther towards Jews are common today - and not just going back 70 years to the Nazi's. These views are held and promoted on millions of websites right now, and by most of the Arab world's official education programs, to this very day.
It also remains a part of "civilised" society, in places such as Australia. As a Jew in this country, I have to put up with abuse on almost every intersection I cross, while I wait for the lights or have things thrown at me from cars and have lovely little hate notes stuffed in my letterbox. These things don't happen infrequently, they happen *all the time*.
I have been refused service in shops in the CBD of the city I live in and I have (and will continue) to received tonnes of abuse online, some on this very site. I have received emails telling me that my family, specifically mentioning children, must be killed.
Mainstream media still effectively says it's just "political discourse" to say Jews "control the world" and "run the media" and "are inherently evil" (taken from the radio this very morning) and Israel still receives a massively disproportional amount of negative media attention, while far, far worse countries get absolutely none.
However, from all the groups of people who vent irrational hatred at me, simply because I'm Jewish, none can compete with the fundamentalist Christian. The sheer white hot heat of the hatred I have received from these people staggers me (in the interest of fairness, however, I must mention that other groups of Christians are amongst the most supportive of Jews). I remain completely dumbfounded that I am constantly told by such people that I am personally in some way in control of the entire world, the banking system, single handedly start wars, despite the fact I clearly just have a job, mortgage and the basic exact same life as every other Australian and no more power than any other voter.
So does atheism lead to anti-Semitism? Not in my opinion. In my opinion, pretty much every single segment of society hates Jews with a completely irrational and intense hatred. Christians, Muslims, socialists, right wing supremacists, liberals, the media and atheists alike. And all of them spout the same obviously bullshit reasons about world domination, starting wars, etc, etc, none of which stand up to even a nanosecond of scrutiny. All of them educated by either their church leaders, their parents or their media outlets that Jews are at the very least "different" from you and not to be trusted.
I am fucking sick of it.