Should voting be mandatory?
Marvin the Martian 31 comments
Two days remain until the next Australian federal election. Australians will be sent to the polls to elect the next leader and the choice comes down to two individuals, both with very similar platforms, both with dubious pasts.
In Australia, citizens are required - by law - to vote and I find this curious. On one side, forcing people to vote means that the final tally is a representation of the entire electorate and therefore make the results of the vote more valuable and representative of true democracy. On the other hand, it also means that those who are ignorant of the issues or simply fear the penalty for not voting (typically a monetary fine) will vote arbitrarily.
Personally, I can see both sides of the issue. I think having more people vote is a good thing, but forcing people to vote leads to problems. I am more concerned that people will vote arbitrarily to avoid the penalties and stick us with a government that will guide us in the wrong direction than I am about fewer people voting.
If we are truly living in a democracy, some say it is our requirement to vote. I say it is our right to vote. If we have the freedom to choose, we have the freedom not to choose. In other words, the right to vote should be a choice.
I for one have never missed an election in Canada, but I had a vested interest in the outcome of the electoral process and was educated on the issues at hand and those seeking to lead our country. In Australia, I am not as well versed on the intricacies of the Australian way of life and do not fully understand all of the issues. Those that I do understand, there are no parties currently engaged in the election process that represent my beliefs. But by Australian law, I am required to vote.
In the end, I will do what many are forced to do, simply to avoid being punished for a choice I should be able to make on my own. In the end I will vote in protest for no one. I will have to take time out of my schedule and wait in line, simply not to vote, but instead ensure that my name is checked on the rolls to prevent being punished.
How do Limers feel about this? If you live in a country where voting is optional, do you take advantage of your opportunity or squander it? Do you feel there are no parties to represent your views? What if you lived in Australia, how would you deal with this? If you are an Aussie, how will you be voting, or will you simply show up to avoid getting fined?
Rodney
Thursday 19th August 2010 | 08:51 PMYou don't have to vote - you have to make a mark on the paper, but you don't have to actually vote. You state you plan to vote for no one, so in effect this is what you're doing.
American's prove each election cycle that the majority of people don't vote if they don't have to. Then they complain for 4 years about their government. Clearly our system of actually voting - then complaining - is vastly superior! :-p
Marvin the Martian
Friday 20th August 2010 | 10:45 AM...in response to this comment by Rodney. I agree. If I don't vote I have no reason to complain. That is why I chose to vote each time... I don't plan to spoil my ballot by marking it, but rather vote in protest by not making a single mark.
Papa
Saturday 21st August 2010 | 03:54 AM...in response to this comment by Rodney. "American's prove each election cycle that the majority of people don't vote if they don't have to."
Where are you getting the numbers to say "majority"? No party represents my views adequately, and I am not for the "lesser of two evils" mentality.
"Then they complain for 4 years about their government. "
No, most of the world does that for us...
Marvin the Martian
Saturday 21st August 2010 | 06:45 AM...in response to this comment by Papa. Papa, you may be the exception to the rule.
Rodney
Saturday 21st August 2010 | 08:00 PM...in response to this comment by Papa. I don't have any facts to support my statement. It was a facetious joke (hence the ":-p" that followed it.) about the fact that people inherently complain about their government, regardless of whether they voted for them or not.
I think we all understand by now that regardless of who you vote (or don't for), you're going to wind up with a crappy government.
I think mandatory voting is wrong.
Case in point. Yesterday I went in to cast an absent vote (the least important part of my day) and I asked the woman who handed me the forms if they manually check to see if we have filled them in correctly. She said 'no', and so I just gave the untouched forms straight back to her. She laughed quite loudly.
My only obligation was to turn up so I could not cast a vote, time I could have spent doing something important or fun.
Anyhoo, is it just me or are both these candidates as useless as each other? I don't want either of them in power, hence my null vote.
I'm curious...How long has voting been mandatory Down Under? From the beginning of the current governing system? Or has it become so within the last 100 or less years? sorry, I know nothing of Australian Politics, but I assume it has the same shape and smell as do American Politics.
My guess is that for whatever reason, there is some group that benefits from the continuation of this mandatory voting. There must be some advantage to one party by having uninformed, uneducated people being forced to vote. As usual, I fear some sort of conspiracy. Somebody smarter than the television watching masses is shaping the minds of the unwitting, forced voters, with the television, and other media processes and events.
Say something often enough, and millions will believe it...then force them to vote. Makes sense to me.
arthur
Sunday 22nd August 2010 | 12:39 PMWe are supposed to be a democracy in that we have the right to vote, but we don't have the right to not vote. If you don't vote you get fined. This is not democracy it is dictatorship. You will vote or you will get fined. What if your are like me and despise politics and politicians and by choice do not follow them or any of their rhetoric and don't want to vote because I know nothing about it and want to leave it to those that do?
Marvin the Martian
Sunday 22nd August 2010 | 02:11 PMWell, in the end I chose not to vote at all. I didn't show up, cast a vote or get checked off the roles. We'll see what happens... Personally, I am interested to see how many people actually get fined and if they do what the process is in appealing that fine.
peter
Sunday 22nd August 2010 | 09:06 PMA mate of mine is a businesman and told me his time was valuable and it was cheaper for him to pay the $20 fine than take the time out to go and turn up and get his name crossed off the list.
Rodney
Sunday 22nd August 2010 | 09:38 PMTo all of you who didn't vote or screwed their vote on purpose: thanks very much. We now have a hung parliament. So thanks to you, we're probably going to have ANOTHER f&*#ing election and more f&*#ing election commercials on the TV, internet and radio. Way to perpetuate the very think you hate...
Next time, just pick someone and vote, so we can end all this talk about voting. Yes they're all crap but at least once we settle on one of the choices of crap, we can stop having them tell us how they're less crap than the alternative crap, 800 times a day.
Marvin the Martian
Monday 23rd August 2010 | 06:27 AM...in response to this comment by Rodney. So you would rather I vote for someone who doesn't speak for me rather than not vote? I think you need to look up the meaning of democracy.
Marvin the Martian
Monday 23rd August 2010 | 06:47 AMI mean I would place the blame where it should be - on the political parties - who obviously are not listening to the population:
http://www.theage.com.au/federal-election/informal-vote-a-sign-of-disillusion-20100822-13ay1.html?autostart=1
more than 5.5% of voters voted in protest becuase no one spoke for them. They did this - by the way - rather than just wote for anyone, because it is their right to do so and they, as well as I, are not concerned about amking your life a little uncomfortable with a hung government.
Rodney
Monday 23rd August 2010 | 08:47 AM...in response to this comment by Marvin the Martian. None of them speak for you and none of them are ever going to. I don't want a government to speak for *me* I want a government that acts in the best interest of *everyone*, as best they can.
This "what's in it for me" mentality is precisely what's wrong with humanity.
Marvin the Martian
Monday 23rd August 2010 | 08:58 AM...in response to this comment by Rodney. Why would I want to vote for any party that agrees with descrimination of the gay population, or beleives that it is ok to publically fund religious education?
These two issues are int he 'best interest' of Australia as far as I am concerned, but not 1 viable party agrees. So no vote from me.
not really that complicated.
Henk V
Monday 23rd August 2010 | 11:04 AMIf anyone shows antipathy to any party, they should vote for somebodies ideology that matches the voters mindset.
I must admit in Oz we have an overwhelming non environmental mindset and an abject fear of any technology that isnt tangible. There isnt a party in the country that has the guts to lead Oz out of its national luddism.
The Howard government had an incredible chance to get Australia well below Kyoto emission targets by 2015. It would have naturally followed that a painless technological revolution that would have put Australia as the only nation to be able to rapidly deploy such technologies would have created a country that was fairer to all (not like the shamed US debt economy that will dog that nation for at least 30 years).
What did the Howard government do?
1) Remove the capabilities for self improvement for the under 25's.
2) Hand out child packages to inflate the import economy.
3) Appease the grey vote.
Lets face it, seeing you have to vote here, you should have punished the conservatives for your next $300 power bill and outrageous water management strategies we are stuck with for the next 10 years.
Maybe this shouldnt be a democracy. If your right to vote means electing feeble crochet knitters (the Greens), A-technological Labor or Electorate worshipping Liberals your right to demand a scientific currency test of all sitting members should apply.
Can you imagine what would happen on sitting days when All of Canberra walked around in gold lame skin suits and shaven heads with swastikas tatoos? Only the members that didnt bat an eyelid need stay in parliament house.
Australians should note we are a hell of a lot more diverse than gold lame skin suits and shaven heads with swastikas tatoos but the pollies dont know.
Disclaimer
This post or any part of it was not cut and pasted from any source.
minimel
Monday 23rd August 2010 | 03:55 PM...in response to this comment by Marvin the Martian. One of my friends didnt turn up one year due to her cat being in labour, she was sent a fine and asked her reasoning for not "doing her duty"
she wrote back and said it was more important she be there for her cat rather than vote for some buffoon. She got off, I thought it was classic
Henk V
Monday 23rd August 2010 | 04:14 PMI've tried the "fixated by pussy" clause many times.. they said that fixated by pussy from six am to 6 pm is not an excuse, its a perversion.
Do you know how long it takes to tune a jaguar?
When Rudd got in, I tightened all the belts on friday and adjusted all the electrics from 6 am..
voted at 5pm
TVBIZ(BOB)
Tuesday 24th August 2010 | 06:52 PMI cannot understand how a country can hold an election without compulsory voting?
How can you say that the elected Government was voted in by the majority of the population if only a small percentage bothered to vote?
At least in Australia an elected Government can truly say that it was elected by the majority.
I hate it when people deliberately hand in a non-valid forms and proudly big note themselves to others about doing it - what a stupid, wasteful and childish thing to do.
We are lucky to live in a country which is fairly stable in the Political sense and people go out and abuse their right to add their voice in electing a Government?
By not casting your vote doesn't change anything because a particular party will be elected anyway, and most likely the one you wished didn't, also a wasted vote when put all together with other wasted votes could change Governments.
I truly wish that a law was introduced to stop people from casting dummy votes. I wish that every vote that is found to be invalid whether done on purpose or not goes to the Government already in power. I think that the person would think twice about being a dummy - but then again once a dummy always a dummy........
Marvin the Martian
Wednesday 25th August 2010 | 06:09 AM...in response to this comment by TVBIZ(BOB). My guess is that you didn't read the articles or the various comments submitted... We live in a democracy and as such, it is your right (not obligation) to vote. It is up to you to decide if any party speaks to your political beliefs and if so, vote for them. By the same token you have the right to choose not to vote, or protest your vote if you feel no party speaks to your views.
Individual votes mean less and less as the scope of the election becomes larger. That is not to day that voting doesn't matter but to suggest that people should be denied their democratic right to protest a vote is shear idiocy. It is one of the corner stones of the democratic process.
aries
Thursday 26th August 2010 | 09:03 PMWOW!!! I'M APPALLED AND DISGUSTED!!!
I don't often get angry to the point of wanting to abuse people but I have to say reading this article and it's comments has got me pretty worked up and I am working really hard to temper what I say.
I just love the APATHETIC Aussie attitude of making everything someone else's responsibility. No wonder this country is in such a fucking mess.
As Rodney correctly stated, we now have a hung parliament which means we are almost certain to have to vote again within the next 12 months, so thank you very much to the 6 percent of you that WASTED your vote. How did that work out for you?
You have forfeited your right to EVER complain about politics or how this country is run ever again.
Get educated and stop making excuses, and if you don't like the options presented for you then become part of the solution and stop being part of the problem. Join a political party6, start your own I don't care, just don't fucking complain about the mess you bloody helped to create with your self righteousness and apathy.
This mentality of voting who mum and dad voted for, or for whoever puts more money in YOUR back pocket has got to stop. And calling the Greens 'feeble crochet knitters' Henk just shows your level of real intellect and education. We avoided a recession because of the Greens and they have more substance and vision as a party than all of the others in Australia put together.
We are a nation wealthy beyond imagination and we should be thinking long term and utilising our current economic boom to build alternative energy sources such as wind wave and solar and we should have a high speed rail network also, not to mention new hospitals and schools, higher pay for teachers, nurses and emergency service workers etc.
If any of you want any of this then you are going to have to pay more tax, it's that simple. A tax on mining is the smartest thing anyone has suggested in years, but why stop there? What about pharmaceutical and oil companies too?
There is more than enough money and resources to go round but the mentality seems to be fuck everyone else, as long as I'm ok and can horde as much money as possible life is good.
Your ignorant comments and lame excuses for not voting or doing something about it are testament to this.
Just don't vote, yeah that fixes everything... Good on ya guys!!! See you at the polls again very shortly.
Marvin the Martian
Friday 27th August 2010 | 06:07 AMReally? A hung parliament guarantees that you have to go to the polls again within 12 months? Hate to break it to you but the last three Canadian elections have ended up in minority situation an frankly it has been the best thing for Canada in decades.
While the progress of the parliament will be slowed, what this now means is that any laws that are passed will need to be agree upon by essentially all parties and not just one with their own political agenda.
This could be a good thing in the end. Just wait and see what happens.
aries
Friday 27th August 2010 | 03:05 PMI know it doesn't mean there WILL be another election, but history shows that typically in a hung parliament we end up back at the polls within 12 months.
In a situation as close as ours a byelection could actually mean a change of power inside of a 3 year term, meaning if the parties hold equal power and a seat changes hands in a byelection it can push one party out and another one in.
I do however see the potential for change provided the independents don't get too greedy or power hungry. From what I can see 2 of the 4 independents are more focussed on what is best for the country as a whole and the other 2 are more concerned with what they can milk the situation for to benefit their own electorates.
I live in hope that this is and will be a good thing that brings about some real reform and change to the way we do parliament.
My comments were more to illustrate how having no say at all in the form of an invalid or no vote, does not help those people in what that were hoping to (not) achieve.
It's just dumb luck that some good may actually come of their laziness and apathy.
Their opinions and comments now hold as much sway to me as their votes do...
Henk v
Tuesday 31st August 2010 | 01:05 PMYour right aries, it should have been "pig ignorant scientifically disabused crochet knitters that are the cause of the problem".
Henk v
Tuesday 31st August 2010 | 01:08 PMdid i mention at any stage... absolutely technologically ignorant? I should have...these political homeopaths, chiropractors and naturopaths prancing in their middle aged zeal for recognition should be shut down by an enraged mob of their mental peers...athe demented of the nursing homes
aries
Tuesday 31st August 2010 | 03:37 PMGood luck living in the stone age Henk... You and Tony Abbott will be great company for one another...
Henk V
Wednesday 1st September 2010 | 09:23 AMNo quite the opposite, i see absolutely no science in the greens.. maintaining our forests, creating a VFR and home dentistry is not a platform...
The environment is to be solved by real, hard technology... not by flag waving by doddering old fools trying to attract the vote of arts students.
Maybe had they mentioned real solutions.. but no
Aries, get that organic hand out of your back side and look... technology wastage occurs everywhere... Just adresseing those issues would make Oz dip below current global targets... personally I'd like to see something clean and safe such as clean nuclear technologies start Australia down the path of carbon emission negativity and market expansion. I's like to see absolute recycling, not the lip service Australians pay to it.
Maybe you're a Leo
digging a hole in the ground gets us naught... but then maybe you're the one in bed with wingnuts and bob... christine would make an interesting deluded addition to you three
No technological solution... no world..
mind you growing heritage pyethrin daisies in a prize wheat field is "just a little bit bullshit"
aries
Thursday 2nd September 2010 | 11:48 AMI'm not sure whether to laugh at you or feel sorry for you Henk... but the latter seems to be gathering more momentum with every ill informed fanatical rant you post.
Marvin the Martian
Thursday 2nd September 2010 | 01:12 PMFrankly I tend to agree with Henk (where he is coherent).
The Greens have no real platform outside of the environment and even then it is tenuous at best. They offer little for education, foreign relations, healthcare, security, Internet censorship, etc.
I wish there was a solid Libertarian party. I would vote for them. Enough of this nanny state government. let people make their own decisions and if they fuck up, they fuck up.
Abbot and Costello (I mean Gillard) are really both from the same party. The only real difference is where the money comes from. Either the banks and big business or labour unions.
andrew
Thursday 19th August 2010 | 06:47 PMit would you wonder how many would vote in aust if it wasnt compulsory? i know i wouldn;t.
this election is like a circus.