Friendo

Saturday 31st July 2010 | 08:38 PM

Call me what you will...I don't get it. This is about as far from what I would call "music" as one could get. It's crap, it sucks, it's terrible, has little or no value to anyone. Who could possibly like this? To think I used to like Jone Mitchell. Excuse me while I go wash the vomit off.

f~

Gina

Sunday 1st August 2010 | 12:30 AM

Joni's the best.

Makes my hair stand on end at 3:00. Love it.

Back in the 70's whenever Joni was played in our house (our mom turned us onto to her -- Mom you were a genius!) our father would say, "She sounds like a dying cow in a hailstorm!"

He had no ear for music.

Gina

Sunday 1st August 2010 | 12:48 AM

Check it out, Papa:

Gina

Sunday 1st August 2010 | 12:51 AM

Here he is again. It just gets better and better

Papa

Sunday 1st August 2010 | 07:14 AM

...in response to this comment by Friendo. Like I said before, either you get it, or you don't. I don't expect most to understand the musicianship of Joni and Jaco.

Let me guess Friendo, a Lynyrd Skynyrd fan?

Glad there is one person who can hear this song like tasting a fine wine. But none the less, no one can sing like her. And better yet, look up any videos of other woman attempting to sing her songs. They can't. No one can write songs like her, no one has the vision and the depth to produce such awesome songs. But again, there will always be people like friendo...

Papa

Sunday 1st August 2010 | 04:57 PM

...in response to this comment by Friendo. First off, thank you Gina...

I have to be honest about this. After listening to Joni/Jaco/Mitchell all day. I don't even want to know what you listen too Friendo. Your musical taste is so skewed its like talking to someone who believes the world is still flat... Sorry dude, grow your understanding of this sh*t before you start bashing it like a fundy christian bashing atheism. Seems like you have become the very thing you criticize... someone who bashes before they understand, someone who critiques before they know... oh well, like I said. Either you get it or you don't. You are a christian to me now Friendo...

Henk V

Sunday 1st August 2010 | 06:15 PM

For my taste, or lack there of, there aint nothing wrong with it.. but I doubt that Joni did the arrangements. Its enjoyable and, lets face it, it shits all over the stuff that lou reed (rolling stones #8 guitarist (as if reed was ever a rhythm guitarist of note)) foists on us over the past 10 years.


Guys, there is so much astounding music from the past 100 years to roll out of the states, why bitch about the good ones? By all means, bag the sex starved stick figure and 25 years of junk rap and pop....Bag Kiss if you like (oops, they were never musicians)

Even if i gave a guy 50 bucks to pour honey into that aeroplane fuel tank, Lynyrd Skynyrd shits all over most of the pop junk any country has ever produced. Saying that Papa is like saying Thin Lizzy weren't worth a listen to.

Some people like this folky - interruptive style of music. Ive been to festivals where they play this all day. It gets to the point that after three days of astounding yawns, you realise you are looking at every musician, listening to every incorrect chord laying of the guitarists and every out of key bass and you realise... you should have been visiting town musea after day one.


Its like that for every extended festival to me whether its rock, folk or jazz. There is usually only one or two gems.

Would I pay to see Joni? Tull? Page/Plant? Gilliam/Paice? Police?

No friggen way.

Would I pay to see Andy Summer play with your songstresses again? Yes..Way! Just sweet clean guitar, great chordal musicianship that understands the main vocalist like james randi can bend and RSJ with style..

and, after three years ago, festivals suck... the grog is just too expensive.


Mind you, It was nice for Papa to post this... about five minutes of good fun... IS GOOD FUN.

Thanks mate, as a cave man, I have to scratch my head to post something that is so all round appealing.

Its very sad, but with my eyesight and hearing, I play what my son leaves on this PC desk. At present I am getting Motorhead. Not very musical. Lots of fun even if Eddy says folk aren't dying to get into Lemmie's concerts.

I do get my own back on the world...I havent lost my drivers liscence after being legally blind for two years... dang that old ford sounds sweet

Friendo

Sunday 1st August 2010 | 10:39 PM

...in response to this comment by Papa. Zowie Papa, Fellow Countryman, Man I have communicated with outside this forum, Friend in cyberspace...Apparently this stuff has you under some hypnotic spell. My"musical taste is so skewed its like talking to someone who believes the world is still flat." Wow, sorry, I didn't know I was required to like everything you like to be considered a scient being. I always thought Musical taste was a very personal thing.

I must have been confused...I didn't realize that you set the standards for good taste. I didn't know that everyone with intelligence, compassion, or independent thought liked this new Jonie Mitchell.

I've been accused of being plenty of things in my life, but never a christian because I didn't agree with someones musical taste. Should I have lied? I went back and listened again, and (to put it politely,) I just don't like it.

I tend to like Music with a genomes of Basic Rock, and Repetitive Song Structure, with Folk, Hard Rock, and Country Roots, Major Key Tonality, Acoustic Rock Instrumentation, Bluegrass Instrumentation, Electric Instrumentation, and, Electric Rock Instrumentation, along with Acoustic Guitar Layering, and Acoustic Guitar Riffs...and so on...along with much Classical, as I was schooled in Classical Piano. I have a pretty specific and good understanding of what type of music I enjoy. Why knowing this makes me "someone who bashes before they understand, someone who critiques before they know" I don't quite understand?...

"You are a christian to me now Friendo..." Wow, I'm going to have to re evaluate what I thought of you. Those are some pretty strong words. Let me see: I am one of the things you know I would despise most being called, because I don't like a particular piece of music that you do. There would seem to be some sort of disconnect here... I'm being called closed minded 'cause I don't like a particular song you do. I'm confused...Who's got the closed mind here?

How many times do I have to listen to this "tune" which meets none of my genomic criteria, that sounds like crap to me, before I can safely say in a public forum that I don't like it, without being bashed and name called for my preference?

I've always thought you were kind of a cool guy (from what I've read of yours) but I think you've gone a bit over the top here. I am so sorry that I am a Fundie to you now, just because I didn't like your post on a song I don't like. You might want to take a look at yourself on this one.

Oh, and by the way: I hate Lynyrd Skynyrd. They are flag waving fools, riding a wave of patriotic rock insanity, for the money. Not to mention, I just don't like their music.

Sorry to be "someone who bashes before they understand"...that sounds allot like you are saying I am Prejudiced: "preconceived belief, opinion, or judgment made without ascertaining the facts." Well the facts are in this case; I listened, I didn't like it, and I said so. If a person gives you an olive, you eat it, and you don't like it, and say; "I don't like this type of olives" does this make you someone who bashes before they understand? Is there a need for me to understand music before I decide if I like it or not? What about war, do I need to understand it before I come out against it?

I gotta' stop, I could go on for hours on this one. I'd really like it if you softened up what you have said to me, you have genuinely hurt my feelings here.

BTW, I find no redeeming value in the above music. I don't like it. Sorry that you have had to reconsider your view of the person I am, and feel the need to insult me.

f~

Gina

Sunday 1st August 2010 | 11:37 PM

...in response to this comment by Papa. Hey, no problem.

I didn't realize it till now, but I believe Jaco was playing on Hejira -- Amelia is what's playing in my head right now. That is my favorite Joni Mitchell album. Song for Sharon. The man has amazing talent.

Then of course there's my all time favorite Joni Mitchell tune from her Night Ride Home album which is Passion Play.

Then, there's Clarinet for Free, which my brother John was trying to teach me to play on the piano when I was young. I wasn't bad for a 12-year-old, but I couldn't get past the intro.

Now, see, Papa, if you'd been here in times past, you'd have known that I'm a big Joni fan....

https://rustylime.com/show_article.php?id=1563#comm12782

Anyhoo. Please do share your other musical tastes. I'd be interested in hearing more.

Gina

Sunday 1st August 2010 | 11:52 PM

...in response to this comment by Friendo. I know you and Papa will get past this.

I hope I don't get my head bitten off here, but I feel compelled to point out the obvious. You said in your first comment: "Call me what you will..." And Papa did. However, in all fairness, my feelings would have been hurt by those comments too.

Friendo, what's your favorite Joni tune?

Friendo

Monday 2nd August 2010 | 12:37 AM

...in response to this comment by Gina. I was hoping that nobody would notice that "call me what you will." I have to say though, that it was the rhetorical "call me what you will" I was not really inviting him to just let fly.

I go back to the old days of the Flat Earth/Fundi-Christian days of Joni Mitchell when her songs were free of free form vocalized sounds. I, being a paid in full member of the I.F.E.S. (International Flat Earth Society), and a Rapture I.D. card carrying fundamentalist Christian like Joni songs like: Both Sides Now, Big Yellow Taxi, and Blue.

Thanks Gina

f~

Gina

Monday 2nd August 2010 | 12:39 AM

You're welcome. I love you, Friendo, and I hope you have a good rest of the day. :)

Papa

Monday 2nd August 2010 | 09:53 AM

...in response to this comment by Friendo. Again, either you get it, or you don't. Which was my point to begin with, But to weigh such hefty insults against an artist as substantial as Joni Mitchell is just ignorant. Saying it has little to no musical value what so ever? Again, you are entitled to your opinion, but you are simply bashing what you don't understand.

"...this new Jonie Mitchell."

Not to be insulting, but how old are you Friendo? This album was released in 1977. The person who is playing bass (Jaco) died in 1986. The bass player by himself is arguable considered the best bassist who has ever lived.

"...before I can safely say in a public forum that I don't like it."

You didn't say you didn't like it, you inferred that you vomited after listening to it. But the fact remains is that you simply judged something you didn't understand.. As Gina pointed out, your first comment was an insult against Joni Mitchell, but also against my musical tastes. And sorry, but your response reminded me of a christian who was just represented with facts about the bible's true origin. And instead of a understanding or embarking on an intellectual discussion, they resorted to explaining the subsequent explosion of their stomach contents.

Papa

Monday 2nd August 2010 | 10:20 AM

...in response to this comment by Henk V. "but I doubt that Joni did the arrangements."

Don Juan's Reckless Daughter was written, and produced by Joni Mitchell. That means, she arranged them also.

Friendo

Monday 2nd August 2010 | 10:29 AM

...in response to this comment by Papa. I was 25 years old in 1977. I accidentally gave you kudos for the above comment. There must be some irony there someplace. I don't know how to undo Kudos though, otherwise I would have. Sorry, this music was "new" to me.

I am still having a tough time reconciling your direct insults to me, against my eructations toward Joni's "song"

Apparently, you have been quite moved by it, and that's a great feeling for you, I'm sure. I know that over the years, there have been songs, movies, photos, etc. that have moved me, and I do understand the disappointment when others so not think the same way.

Music is a personal thing, and that's one of it's best aspects. When I go to the ice cream store, they have many flavors. Licorice is a flavor that I can't stand, however, I know there must be gazillions of people who think it's the best flavor ever made. There will surely be some who will tell me how it was made by the worlds best ice cream maker, and will wonder how I could not like it.

Papa...I am sorry to have smacked you right in the face with the vomit thing, perhaps this was a bit too strong. You mean too much to me as a friend to let one tiny ice cream flavor get in the way. I was wrong to have come out so strongly. I should have considered your feelings about how you must have thought about this song to have written such a favorable article about it. I was insensitive. Please forgive me...I do not believe the Earth is flat, and I am not a Christian however. And I hate Lynyrd Skynyrd.

f~

Papa

Monday 2nd August 2010 | 11:03 AM

...in response to this comment by Friendo. Hey, thats what we are here for. To discuss, maybe argue and piss some people off. But at the end of the day we all post here, and have our own opinions and go about our way at expressing them. If something like this changed the way I felt about you as a friend, I wouldn't be much of a person! Never any hard feelings over here mate...!

Friendo

Monday 2nd August 2010 | 11:12 AM

...in response to this comment by Papa. Sniffle, wipe...thanks...And now back to our regularly scheduled program;-)

Wow, that was a close one...

f~

David S

Monday 2nd August 2010 | 12:50 PM

You seem to be passing your opinions off as fact. I would have to say that is no where near the best music I have ever heard. I don't dislike Joni Mitchell, and I like the song. However it is not, was not, and will not be the best music in my opinion. I know what I like and the fact I don't like something doesn't mean I don't have an understanding of it. By your very own logic I could say that modern rap is the best music ever there ever will be and if you don't agree you just don't understand it.

That all said I am a classic rock, folk, bluegrass, classical, symphonic, and classic country fan. I've even done some formal book learning on music. Granted I got looked down on in that class too because I'm not a musician and I couldn't tell the difference between a rondeau and a madrigal.

With that in mind my friends and I (many of whom have or a seeking a degree in music) decided this was perhaps one of the best pieces in the last 50 years. You might not quite have our level of musical training to appreciate it.

Papa

Monday 2nd August 2010 | 01:08 PM

...in response to this comment by David S. The disclaimer was "either you get it or you don't". And yet for some reason, people (not only on this thread) need to convey their musical prowess upon us. If this was a competition, I would have had a vote attached to this thread.

Maybe I wasn't clear enough in my original post, "this is pretty much as good as it gets"... too me, should have been the statement.

So despite the fact that your link does not include the greatest bass player that has ever lived, I am glad you enjoy your specific genre of music. But unless you can enlighten me on how your link has anything to do with our conversation besides you attempting to "educate" us, I think I'll just keep my review of Krzysztof Penderecki to myself. Should I attach some Tom Waits and show how you can't appreciate that? God damn....

Jake Farr-Wharton

Monday 2nd August 2010 | 01:18 PM

As a musical prodigy, I refuse to listen to anything with a melody, lest I be swayed from the naturaly occuring artistic flow.

On a more serious note, in Australia, we have a radio station dedicated to ass-holes like me who find their music tastes best described as 'genere-whores' called Triple-J.

It plays all new, all non-pop, all day, every day.

For me, the advantage of this is that I can not give a shit about music, and still listen to great music.

P.s. you're all old fuddy-duddies. Except you Friendo.

soloburnmike

Tuesday 3rd August 2010 | 02:52 AM

It's interesting that a simple passionate statement from a Joni/Jaco fan (Papa) can fuel so much polarized opinion. There is no right or wrong in what you love which is why music is great. But you certainly have to realize that when you come back with comments on vomitting as opposed to "it's not something I like" it's going to fuel some kind of reaction!

I've been in the music industry all my life and nothing (in my opinion) is more powerful than the emotions that music can bring. Musicians are a rare breed and their passion to create SHOULD be admired by all regardless of the type of music they create. Whether YOU personally like it or not, they are contributing something to the world and if you are not a musician you might want to be just a bit reserved when criticizing their contributions.

There are a lot of bands and music I don't like, but I respect those people for getting out there and doing it!

IN MY OPINION Joni Mitchell is one of our culture's greatest gifts. Her music is truly unique, she always has something to say, she is not influenced by critics or record labels, and probably most importantly she helped pave the way for female artists everywhere. Whether you like her music or not, simply by following her driving passions, we have many female artists to listen to these days who were helped and motivated by her actions. Peace and cheers!

Gina

Tuesday 3rd August 2010 | 11:20 AM

...in response to this comment by soloburnmike. Welcome soloburnmike.

I hope I don't get my head bitten off here, but we have to look at how many people's "passions" are seriously misguided and filled with hate and ill will. There are a lot of bands out there that make me want to vomit -- like those rapper artists that talk about shooting people up and raping girls, etc.. Ummm-- no.

I give respect where respect is due.

soloburnmike

Tuesday 3rd August 2010 | 02:55 PM

Gina how does an extreme minority change what I have said? You say you give respect where respect is due but you immediately focus on the exception to the rule. You say "a lot of bands" but the fact of the matter is most musicians have a voice and they write about love, life, war, children, history, etc. and they are out there creating something that is bigger than themselves.

You don't have to like it and that is your choice. All I am saying is give people a bit of respect who have the drive to tell a story and be heard.

And by the way, I have met some of the worlds most famous rappers and DJs and their message is pretty damn cool - it says we have one world, let's all lighten up and try to get along.

Henk V

Tuesday 3rd August 2010 | 03:05 PM

sorry I dont know where you get this idea that repeating the same gibberish over and over again for 30 years comprises music.

Rap was ok on that once first album somewhere in the Cretaceous (was it grand master flash or rick james???) but when it snuck out so that every talent less hack who thought he was a poet could just stand there and recite Vogon quality control systems in a systemised procedure like a lobotomised chant became 3 million talentless hacks clogging the radio, i realised that even listening to U2 might be an option (about 3 seconds worth).

Rap sux, always has, always will. Get a job guys.

Ask a real musician, you know, the ones who read music not tablature.

TVBIZ(BOB)

Tuesday 3rd August 2010 | 06:38 PM

Absolute crap!

Papa

Tuesday 3rd August 2010 | 11:09 PM

...in response to this comment by Henk V. "Rap sux, always has, always will."

Fundamentalists everywhere! You guys are coming out of the woodworks!

Papa

Tuesday 3rd August 2010 | 11:20 PM

This entire thread is filled with such negative sentiments (except for a few mature posts), this is the last time I will post anything about music on this forum, ever again...

Gina

Wednesday 4th August 2010 | 09:45 AM

...in response to this comment by soloburnmike. Respect means "deep admiration for someone or something elicited by their abilities, qualities, or achievements." I will not deeply admire every person who has a drive to tell a story. Sorry, but I just won't do it. But by all means, you go ahead and admire them "deeply."