Is this still a debate?
Laiste 9 comments
In an effort to prove that the aristocracy can still produce some world class idiots, Lord Christopher Walter Monckton this week told a US Congress hearing that
The right response to the non-problem of global warming is to have the courage to do nothing."
The British Viscount, who was an advisor to Margaret Thatcher, argued that for 14 years there has been no global warming. Despite all evidence to the contrary.
While I admire President Obama’s noble goal to give all sides of a debate an equal airing, I don’t think that the Congressional hearing on Adaptation Policies in Climate Legislation is an appropriate place to include the views of the Cornwall Alliance, a coalition of clergy, theologians and religious leaders. Not surprisingly their point of view, as stated by Pastor Calvin Beisner is
The Biblical world view sees Earth and its ecosystems as the effect of a wise God's creation and ... therefore robust, resilient, and self-regulating, like the product of any good engineer."
I’m pretty religiously tolerant. I figure, if they leave me alone, I’ll leave them alone, but I don’t believe that religious views have any place in climate change debates. While I think it is bad science that leads certain proponents of the ‘climate change is myth’ brigade to claim
Mitigation is always unnecessary - it is also disproportionately expensive. Green jobs are the new euphemism for mass unemployment.”
At least it’s still science and can therefore be tested, poked, prodded and dissected by other scientists. But religion has no place whatsoever in this discussion. Spiritual welfare is one thing but the physical welfare of every being on this planet needs more then a “God will fix it” solution.
Now, I’m not sure if Obama had anything to do with giving these guys a voice at the hearing, but who ever it was really needs to rethink their speakers guest list. Of all the people who get a say in the US Climate Legislation, British aristocrats and religious leaders should not be among them. Seriously, at this point I just don’t understand how climate change is even a debate any more. It’s here, it’s real, now let’s deal with it.
Kliner
Friday 27th March 2009 | 08:10 AMI agree on the climate change issue, but I think a lot of serious hard work and research on the subject is being undermined by propagandistic photos like the one you have in this article.
Kissthis
Friday 27th March 2009 | 08:50 AM...in response to this comment by Kliner. ARE YOU KIDDING ME?!!!! How can you consider that photo "propagandistic" (by the way, that's not even a real word).
Excuse me while I sort through the flood of emotion I'm wrangling with in regards to your RIDICULOUS statement.
THAT photo is a picture of REALITY!!!!!! Like it or not, that is a totally innocent polar bear stranded on an ice cap because of the self-centered mentality of the human race. It's not like the photographer hired a "model" polar bear to pose helplessly on an ice cap to manipulate sympathy for a situation that doesn't exist.To label it propaganda is outright DENIAL!!!! Wake up and SMELL the COFFEE!!!!
Gong
Friday 27th March 2009 | 09:25 AMthere's probably nothing we can do.
global warming may be a natural occurrence in the huge cycle of the earth's climate change
Jake Farr-Wharton
Friday 27th March 2009 | 09:43 AMYou are far more tollerant than I Laiste... though I think that goes without saying!
There must be a clear separation between religion and state with anything involving potential legislation. Theologeons are stupid, plain and simple. Despite all of the evidence to the contrary, they still believe wholeheatedly that their bearded idiot created earth for the earthlings and space for the earthlings and the universe for the earthlings... They created the religion, they created the doctrine... can they not see that such reasoning is at best flawed, at worst drivvel?
I am a vocal member of the Australian Secular Party (www.secular.org) and have very strong views, as I'm sure you know, relating to the separation of religion and any institution, let alone one with legislative powers that effect all people.
This Viscount is an interesting character though, I find it interesting that while he gave his statement apparently discrediting the notion of climate change (whether recognised as being natural or human made) without any reasoning. All he did was say it does not exist... sounds pretty religious to me.
God created this world perfectly, such perfection includes imperfections, imperfections that may end humanity... f*ck I love churchies, their justification for everything is "it is so because god willed it so"... introduce me to god and I'll agree.
Bowlerguy
Saturday 28th March 2009 | 07:51 AMIm sorry, but global warming is not caused by humans, the earth has been at a increase in tempurature since the ice age, so by its our fault logic, cavemen's fires started global warming.
Kissthis
Saturday 28th March 2009 | 12:57 PM...in response to this comment by Bowlerguy. Do you really believe our existence has no effect on the environment? With all the data science has provided to the contrary, I feel compelled to point out the delusional position you have taken. That's exactly the mentality that has contributed to the problem. And yes, it started with the caveman's fires and got progressively worse as man evolved. : )
Gong
Saturday 28th March 2009 | 04:10 PMAll living things have an effect on the environment and climate. The anaerobic bacteria in the early stages of the earth's development drastically changed the environment by using up the thick CO2 atmosphere and converting it into "poisonous" oxygen.
Also there are other stronger factors that effect the climate besides human activity, such as volcanoes and plate tectonics.
When the north and south american continents were joined together, it broke some oceanic currents that kept overall climate stable, thus creating ice ages and such. The past 10,000 years have been a relatively stable and warm period. The climate will get warmer and warmer which will melt more ice until a critical point in which too much fresh water disrupts the north atlantic current and it stops transporting heat to europe. Then the glaciers will advance, reflecting more of the sun's heat away which lowers temperatures, and another ice age is started.
So unless we can control all these powerful factors, we are powerless to stop climate change.
But of course it is important to not waste energy, since using energy does contribute to pollution and such.
Even if there is cold fusion tomorrow, and no one uses fossil fuels and dumps greenhouse gases into the atmosphere, the climate will still change in the long term.
Kissthis
Saturday 28th March 2009 | 06:00 PM...in response to this comment by Gong. For a time, there was debate about whether the observed warming of the Earth's surface was due primarily to greenhouse gases generated by human activities or whether the warming was part of natural variation. The most authoritative studies have been those of the Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change (IPCC), a group of several thousand scientists commissioned by the United Nations. The IPCC concluded in it's most recent report (2007) that the evidence of global warming is now unequivocal and that most of the average global warming since the mid-20th century is very likely to be due to human activities. Moreover, discernible human influences extend to other aspects of climate, including ocean warming, temperature extremes, and wind patterns. The effects of human-induced changes in climate will last for centuries, although change will be reduced if emissions can be stabilized. With the 2007 IPCC report, the debate on whether there is significant human influence on climate is essentially over for most scientists and policy makers, and the more important issues now relate to more detailed evaluation of changes and impacts, and the development and implementation of policies toward climate change.
For more information about the report, please click on the following link:
http://www.nytimes.com/2007/02/02/science/earth/02cnd-climate.html
There will always be skeptics, as illustrated in a more recent New York Times article linked below:
http://www.nytimes.com/2009/03/09/science/earth/09climate.html?_r=1&ref=science
: )
Joe Marco
Friday 27th March 2009 | 06:43 AMit's been one hell of ride, but now Mr. Toad is tired and can no longer see straight..it's like a killer looming over you while you sleep, you suddenly wake up and begin to debate the cons of him murdering you. There is no debate to be had.
We can no longer go about our business as usual.
So at least, a few of us agree on that much. But then what? what's next? we wait around for 'politicians' to do the right thing?
The right thing for any blue blooded politician to do is to make sure votes are secured for the next election. Even as I write this, Fox News is stirring up the next plot for the upcoming Palin presidency in 2012.
Instead of doing what's right for the sake of our children and our future, they only care about maintaining power. A third party must rise.
One composed of all who have been disenfranchised by 'the system' and 'the American way', one made up of those who actually give a damn about what is too happen and see beyond labels such as 'Republican' or 'Democrat'.
This party will be composed of all the poor people who have lost their homes, all the veterans who have fought a two front war, anybody and everybody who wants to 'Force' change.
What other options is there? detractors will say, 'Humans adapt'...but seriously have you so much faith in the masses that you can trust them?
The time for debate is over.