Put your hands up if your idea of a 'good night' involves group sex?
Jake Farr-Wharton 28 comments
While sex isn’t as taboo as it used to be, ones own likes or fetishes in the bedroom are still kept behind closed doors. And so they should be, really.
While a man may not want to know that his mate likes to wear fishnet stockings in the bedroom, or that his missus likes to invite casual partners to join in on the festivities, I probably wouldn’t view either of them differently if I inadvertently found out.
That said, I’ve had my fair share of crazy wild sex in various scenarios with equally crazy and wild people, so I suppose my acceptance could be related to my experience. However I am not convinced that what has taken place in Rugby League and other sports in recent weeks should have had any bearing on the individual’s repercussions.
For those kept under a rock for the last fortnight, here is what went down. Matthew Johns, ex footballer and now heavyweight sports commentator, was dragged over hot coals after his part in a group sex incident seven years ago was investigated by ABC program 4 corners. After banging Johns and another player, the rest of the team joined in on the action.
Johns lost his job and his reputation, all after a police investigation seven years ago found him not guilty of any wrong doing.
The four corners special was focused on the girl in the incident and the apparent emotional turmoil that she has experienced in the aftermath.
I call bullshit.
I thought I’d hold off writing this article until all of the facts were made public. I am not advocating the serious and heinous crime of rape, and rape was not a factor in this case, all sex was apparently consensual. The girl did not claim that she wanted it to stop at any point. Again, this is not a case of rape, which I am vehemently against.
Actions have consequences. If you, as she did, decided to take two footballers back to your place for sex, that is your decision. If you, as she did, decided after you’d had two of them to f*ck the rest of the team, then that is your decision. If at any point, you want what you have instigated to stop, by all means do so, but this was not the case.
If she has had an emotional breakdown as a result, then that is unfortunate and I can certainly empathise, but it was her decision to go home with them, her decision to have sex with them and her decision to have sex with the others.
All actions have consequences; from the smallest actions like telling a white lie to your boss, all the way up to this scenario. While I am sure that it had the potential to be a traumatic experience retrospectively, her action, in attacking Johns, has had dire consequences.
I can’t condone the action, but the reaction is simply deplorable.
On the flip side of this is that there is a very real and very horny segment of the population who actively pursue and participate in group sex. There are also a great many women who specifically go out to find and give football players a quickie or a blowjob in the toilets.
I don’t make these claims blindly though. I spent years going out with these girls, hanging out in their groups, going to their outrageous parties and laughing at their stories of conquests. These are real people, they have their quirks, but they are nonetheless thinking, breathing, humans.
The point is, ladies and gentlemen, that it is totally wrong to pass judgement on someone for having a quirky or active sex life, it is their choice. While their choices may have consequences, they should be safe to explore them, as long as it is consensual.
If you enjoy having sex and in more than just the missionary position, remember that less than a hundred years ago, you would likely be considered a pervert.
Jake Farr-Wharton
Wednesday 27th May 2009 | 01:12 PM
...in response to this comment
by Joe Marco.
The slut/stud call is an important point, but routinely, it is men who call other men studs and women who call other women sluts. I can't remember ever calling a girl a slut in a derogatory way, sure I've said it, but it can also be used as a jokey type term of indeerment, in the same way that you call someone a dickhead.
While I can't claim (truthfully) to have been with three ladies at once, I've had my share of group and multiple couple sex when I was in my late teens and early twenties. On plenty of occasions, girls in these situations spoke out and said that they didn't want to do something or someone or wanted to stop and so you stopped or moved on, or helped them if they needed it. Girls in those situations have all the power in the world to stop it, at any point in time.
In this case though, the girl wasn't crying 'gang rape', she was saying that she was taken advantage of, didn't feel like she had the power to stop it and spoke out a few weeks later (after allegedly bragging to her work collegues the next day).
I'm not saying that she didn't feel violated as a result of it, but in the same way that an rash and foolish investment decission cost me a couple of grand a few years ago. I reported it to police, but I didn't go on TV because while what was done to me was unethical and perhaps immoral, it was my decission and my lesson.
Group sex is tricky and confusing especially if the lights are off. For as much fun as it might 'seem' because we've seen so much god damn porn, it's really over-rated. With one person, you can focus and do the job right, with more than one, you're forced to take notes and wear a condom.
although, if I could have twenty women at once...I so would...even if it cost me my life. Think about it, all your buddies would say, "Did you hear how he died?" "No, How?" "he spent the night in a strip club with sex starved nuns and ounce of blow."....Legendary.
Laiste
Wednesday 27th May 2009 | 03:28 PM
Bullshit Jake. The girl involved was nineteen years old. And even if she did consent to sex with two of them that does not constitute consent to the rest. How the hell do you think she felt when alone, vulnerable and in a VERY compromising position with a room full of huge blokes? What the f**k was she supposed to say? The reaction to this has been a joke and the only reason I didn't write anything about it myself is because the gut wrenching fury I feel about the whole saga makes it impossible for me to be very coherent about it.
Laiste, after looking into the matter further i.e., 'sources above and 4 corners link', I apologize for any insensitivity. It appears this is more than just 'group sex', clearly this is a case of a woman being 'gang raped'. The link below is a statement issued by 4 corners regarding the episode.
http://www.abc.net.au/4corners/content/2009/s2575275.htm
What's unfortunate, is once again a victim's voice is silenced due either to their sex or the power they are up against, in this case, it's the 'rugby' group sex culture thing, it's a bit akin to Celebrities and the rich mostly getting off the hook. Power and Influence can sometimes outweigh the truth.
Jake Farr-Wharton
Wednesday 27th May 2009 | 04:14 PM
...in response to this comment
by Laiste.
Yes, as you say, that is exactly what she should have done.
No means no. A crowd entering your room to service you doesn't automatically mean no.
I'm sorry, I'm not convinced.
In my experience, anyone willing to go home with more than one guy, with the specific intent to have sex, is confident enough to say "no". I'm certainly not condoning anyone's actions, but it is what it is.
Don't get me wrong, if it were my daughter, I would be out for blood and guts, but I would hope that my daughters would not be so stupid and braindead as to put themselves in such a situation with people they didn't know.
Every action has a consequence laiste, and again, she has not called this rape.
Rodney
Wednesday 27th May 2009 | 04:27 PMIn the news article I heard on the radio, she said that the whole time she was thinking "no" but was too terrified to say it.
Laiste
Wednesday 27th May 2009 | 05:04 PM
...in response to this comment
by Jake Farr-Wharton.
That is such crap Jake. Seriously. I don't know if you have ever felt physically intimidated but if you are a young female who is surrounded by huge burly, testoserone driven blokes who were loud and full of high spirits and you yourself are naked and post coital then the last thing you are going to be able to say is "well no i don't think so". Maybe its just a sheer lack of empathy on your part of the girl in question. Maybe you really can't imagine what it would have been like for her, i don't know, but consent itself isn't even the only issue.
There is the whole culture of footy players and their 'bonding' by group sex. What the f**k is that about?? How many guys are thinking to themselves "oh well if she was willing to take two of us she won't have a problem with the whole team"? Do you seriously not see the vast difference between 'yes' to two guys, and 'yes' to a whole team? Why on earth do they want to watch their mates have sex anyway? How is it that in todays world we still have guys (in this case the footy players) who see women and girls as merely sex toys. Thats what she was to them. Not a person with thoughts and feelings but just someone to screw. Oh and the icing on the cake, Johns confession that if he had the chance to do it again he simply wouldn't have gone into the room. So, he would happliy have left her to her fate, he would have nothing to prevent the horrid situation she found herself in, he just would have avoided the embarrassment it caused.
As for the lady in question not calling this rape, well do you blame her? Have you any concept at all of what rape victims go through? We still live in a culture that blames the victim- that still says 'she did something to provoke it'. In this girls case it was the fact that she had consented to the two. Does that mean she deserves what she got from the rest? Even now, seven years after the fact, even without the words 'rape' being used in the 4 corners interview or anywhere else in the media she has been called all manner of degrading things, not the least of which is that just was just a groupie, that she wasn't really traumisted if it took her this long to say anything, that she was just doing it for the money. And each of those accusations has been refuted by 4 corners in the link Joe Marco provided. Imagine if she had accused someone like Johns of rape. How many people would be claiming she brought it on herself? Or of how the media would treat her. Joe Marco is right. Celebrities do get such a free pass in this regard.
Its not like this particular incident involving the NRL is isolated. This is just one of many such incidents and after each and every one there is an outcry and a claim from the NRL that they are going to 'fix it'. They even have special classes for teaching young footy players that they can't treat women this way. The thought of that makes me want to scream! They need to TEACH blokes how to treat women?!?!? WTF?!?! What does this say about society that footy players need lessons on how NOT to rape or coerce women into sex?
Anyway, as i said, the whole thing pisses me off so I'm just going to shut the f**k up before i break something.
EricVonZipper
Wednesday 27th May 2009 | 06:20 PMNine out of ten people enjoy gang rape.
Jake Farr-Wharton
Thursday 28th May 2009 | 07:21 AM
...in response to this comment
by Laiste.
Laiste, I absolutely see the difference between saying yes to two guys and yes with a whole team, but regardless of how intimidated she was, if she did not want to continue, she should have said something or stopped it. I also agree that any of the idiot football players could and should have been cognisant that the young girl was not a piece of meat to be shared around, and stopped it. Both sides share their side of the blame in this, it is not as clear cut as the media has put out.
Perhaps as a women who has not participated in this sort of act, you have a different view of the personality of someone who has done so. Having known girls who revelled in this sort of behaivior, I can confidently say that if they wanted to stop, they would have stopped, they would have said 'no'. I've been in similar types of situations, at swingers events where guys, girls or couples come to have some drinks and have some fun, and in my experience, girls that seek out sex, whether it be with one ore more partners, are confident enough in themselves and their sexuality to stop when they are uncomfortable or unwilling, or they just want a break. Guys in these situations are totally aware that arousal is subjective, and you keep an eye on the temprement of your partner at that time. If they look as though they're not enjoying it, you stop or at least ask if she is happy to continue.
In saying that, this culture and the culture of rugby players is clearly different. Any form of rape utterly disgusts me, gang rape even more so. If this is were the case, this article would be a lot different, but so far as I know, this is not the case.
I don't know Laiste, I think my problem is that even though I have two daughters, I'm finding it hard to see it from the girl's point of view, given my experience with women in these types of situations. You may have changed my opinion on this situation, though I'm still finding it very hard to understand why she didn't just say no or stop, but I also don't understand why the men involved didn't see that she was in distress and stop it.
Jake Farr-Wharton
Thursday 28th May 2009 | 07:32 AM
...in response to this comment
by Laiste.
Perhaps your assertion that "they need to teach blokes how to treat women" is correct.
While this does sound f*cked up. You must only look at the culture that these kids grew up in to see that they've been raised to be tough and tumble. Traditionally, Rugby legue is made up of people from the lowest socioecconomic ares, with low education standards - real working or lower class areas. They grow up playing the sport, hanging out with other gruff guys. The best looking and most 'available' girls throw themselves at them throughout school and then more so when they leave school and pursue a rugby career.
To the best of knowledge, all chicks they've ever known are hot for them etc.
TVBIZ(BOB)
Thursday 28th May 2009 | 10:44 AM
Unfortunately a lot of these guys are from good families with University degrees.
It just comes down to simple mentality.
Overpaid; bigheaded; egotistical; God image; star struck; sexist; alcoholics, will I go on?
The girl should have said "STOP" even to the two guys, and all of the male participants, even the ones who knew what was going on, should have said "BAD IDEA AND SENT THE GIRL PACKING".
They are supposed to be professional people with an image to uphold but I guess when you are drunk even the best of us acts like utter degenerates.
Bad call on both sides but easy to say when we were not there at the time.
I hate Rugby League and have always done so. Male bonding is an excuse for too much testosterone.
Carlie
Thursday 28th May 2009 | 11:22 AMI agree completely with you Jake. While most girls wouldn't be interested in sleeping with a whole team of footballers, it would be ignorant to think because she was only 19 she was taken advantage of. They deem the age of 16 to be legal which implies that at that age you are old enough to make your own decisions. There are plenty of women who f*ck footballers because of the attention they get. Every woman has the right to say No, and this lady never once claimed to have said that so I don't feel the footballers have done anything wrong. The fact it was investigated and no legal action was required, says to me the lady is just after money.
Jake Farr-Wharton
Thursday 28th May 2009 | 11:42 AM
...in response to this comment
by TVBIZ(BOB).
Stereotypically, it is the Rugby Union guys that have the degrees, not the Rugby Legue players. Most of the prestigeous univerities in Australia, NZ and even Europe and America have sporting schollarships in rugby union, none that I know of have them for legue (though I can't claim to know them all). I played union all through high school and university and only left it a few years ago.
I've been away on plenty of these team bonding sessions, interstate, overseas and otherwise, and we never got into this sort of shit. Team bonding involved drinks and bbqs, or golf, or surfing or long distance bike rides... no gang bangs (though it may well have occurred).
Legue on the other hand is the sport of boofheads, meatheads and showponys. It is a much rougher game and is played by rougher people as a consequence.
I've also coached both a legue and a union team many years ago and can definately tell you that there is a distinct difference in the parents and children. I know of no current grade level rugby legue players with university degrees.
Gina
Thursday 28th May 2009 | 12:46 PM
...in response to this comment
by TVBIZ(BOB).
Bob, I swore I'd never comment here again, but I read I haven't stopped reading, and your posts are short, sweet, and to the point. The day you stop posting is the day I stop reading. So keep up the good work!
G. Squitieri
TVBIZ(BOB)
Thursday 28th May 2009 | 01:53 PM...in response to this comment by Gina . A very nice comment Gina and thankyou:) I love to read everyones comments including yours again too.
TVBIZ(BOB)
Thursday 28th May 2009 | 02:15 PM...in response to this comment by Jake Farr-Wharton. Yes Jake you are probably right about the lack of degrees these guys have. Maybe that's the problem? We have to start getting men with brains involved with the sport instead of men who think with their little fellows...........
Laiste
Thursday 28th May 2009 | 04:55 PM
...in response to this comment
by Jake Farr-Wharton.
Its the "she should have stopped it" part I have a huge problem with. Like it was all on her shoulders, like any young, probably drunk, woman surrounded by huge walls of testoserone all revving to go was in any position to say 'no'. Like any half way decent men couldn't have seen that she was in distress or maybe bothered to ask her.
You under estimate my sexual experience if you think that I have no idea what women who agree to gang bangs a like, I do. I know there are plenty of women who fantasize about it, but none of them took part in a ABC program about the emotional upheavel experienced by young women who have been treated as blow up dolls by rugby league players. This young woman did. Yes, there are more then enough grey areas that no charges were laid at the time. Fine, whatever. But a lot of that would have come down to the sheer impossibilty of proving rape in a case where there was some consent to start off with. But obviously it bothered her enough at the time to make the complaint.
Carlie, for the record, if you haven't read the link Joe Marco provided, the young woman in question did not recieve a cent from the 4 corners program.
Laiste
Thursday 28th May 2009 | 04:57 PMI just wanted to add that the default postion in sexual negotiations isn't "yes"- a woman shouldn't have to say "no". If a guy wants a sexual encounter he should be waiting for the "yes".
andrew
Thursday 28th May 2009 | 09:40 PMapparently she did brag to her fellow work mate the following day about the nights events......
andrew
Thursday 28th May 2009 | 09:43 PMin our sunday paper just gone there was an article about a woman who had sex with 200 footballers ( not all at once) the most she had in one night was 12.
Laiste
Friday 29th May 2009 | 05:45 AM...in response to this comment by andrew. Again, read Joe Marco's link. She did NOT brag and boast to her work mates.
Jake Farr-Wharton
Friday 29th May 2009 | 07:44 AM
...in response to this comment
by Laiste.
Laiste, I totally agree with you that the onus on continuing or stopping is a shared one, it is not just up to the girl to say 'no', if the guy sees any manner of distress or discomfort, he stops. Personally, I can't enjoy it if she's not, and I immagine that even after two guys, she would either be in serious pain, or would have needed serious lube, which is an indicator in its self.
You are also correct that being found 'innocent' and being found 'not guilty' are completely different when it comes to any crime, but most especially rape. Diagnosis of rape is so incredibly subjective and far from an exact science.
Jake Farr-Wharton
Friday 29th May 2009 | 07:47 AM...in response to this comment by Laiste. Sex should never be a negotiation. If both parties is interested, great, if one isn't, they need to make the other aware in one form or another, otherwise the other may never know. Especially in the case of a one night stand or when multiple unknown partners are unknown as getting to know a person's personality and manurisms, sexual likes and dislikes takes time.
Jake Farr-Wharton
Friday 29th May 2009 | 07:49 AMAndrew, as I mentioned in the article, I knew a lot of girls who were completely into that. They loved it, they liked the big blokes who would f*ck them ragged and leave... I even tried to marry one of them, but then found out about her indescressions.
Jake Farr-Wharton
Friday 29th May 2009 | 07:50 AM...in response to this comment by Laiste. Laiste, her work college at the time came out to the media and claimed that she had bragged. Whether hearsay or not, it still adds fuel to the fire.
Wow
Thursday 5th November 2009 | 09:56 AM
Laiste is obviously dealing with her own issues, and chooses to ignore them by getting into other peoples business, and blowing them out of any sense of reason or logic. Do you feel better now Laiste, I presume not..
Your one sided view of the half truths, hersay and nonstop yabbering on the topic has only proven you need to sort things out in your head. Stop attacking others, and blaiming others for the actions you choose.
Women and men make stupid descisions constantly, its endless, and NO ONE is to blame but the person who put themselves in that position. My girl friends, and family have no doubt been in the same position as this girl, as im sure many others have, if not ALL women, and have managed to get themselves out of the situation before anything like this happened. If you feel so damn out of control in a situation like this you need to get help, get yourself some confidence, and be a big girl..
Grow up, and get a clue. Such ignorence pisses me off to such a degree I am posting on a site ive never visited before. Call me a troll, or what have you, but this is DRAMA, n all the people involved are to blaim. If you choose to take a side with such a strong opinion despite any real facts you are only making yourself look bad. That is the only truly clear thing ive gotten from this intire post...
Joe Marco
Wednesday 27th May 2009 | 12:26 PMit's exhausting enough to have sex by yourself let alone another person, but more?...from my own sexual chronicles the morning after having sex with three women at once, was by far one of the most fatiguing but enlightening experiences I have ever had. Now, in such a case, could I, years later claim that I was gang raped by these women? chances being, most people would think, 'Of course not, you're a man, only a wimp would think that."
Granted it wasn't the whole softball team, but the outfield players were quite enough. I digress, back to my point, does it make a difference whether the person being, 'Gang banged' is a woman or a man? People are freaks and freakier in the sack, yet unfortunately, a man will be seen as a stud while a woman will be seen as a slut.